Kidney Stones (feline)

[Miso Vegan]

So, Rupert had kidney stones removed last week. It all went well.

Today, the vet called with the stone analysis. He said that they were calcium oxalate stones, that it was a genetic issue not caused by diet.

He said that they will likely come back unless we change to prescription CD, preferably adding more canned food to increase his water intake.

sigh. Any thoughts? Especially about the food?

[squirrel]

In all my years, I have never seen a kidney stone removal. I'm glad it went well!
I agree about the food.

[Miso Vegan]

Apparently it takes all of 5 minutes. We dropped him off, and like half an hour later they called and said he did well.

[squirrel]

Wow!!

[downwithapathy]

Willow had struvites, for which spacehippy is now keeping her on a veterinary diet. If my reading is still valid, the brand with he closest to quality ingredients is Royal Canin.

Here we go:

Royal Canin SO dry:

Chicken meal, rice, corn gluten meal, ground corn, chicken fat, natural flavors, wheat gluten, powdered cellulose, salt, dried brewers yeast, dried egg product, potassium chloride, anchovy oil (source of EPA/DHA), sodium bisulfate, calcium sulfate, soya oil, taurine, choline chloride, DL-methionine, Vitamins [DL-alpha tocopherol acetate (source of vitamin E), niacin supplement, biotin, riboflavin supplement (vitamin B2), D-calcium pantothenate, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), vitamin A acetate, thiamine mononitrate (vitamin B1), folic acid, vitamin B12 supplement, vitamin D3 supplement], Trace Minerals [zinc oxide, zinc proteinate, ferrous sulfate, manganese proteinate, copper proteinate, copper sulfate, manganous oxide, calcium iodate, sodium selenite], marigold extract (Tagetes erecta L.), rosemary extract, preserved with natural mixed tocopherols (source of vitamin

Royal Canin SO canned:

Water sufficient for processing, chicken liver, pork by-products, chicken, corn flour, chicken by-products, fish oil, starch, dried egg white, powdered cellulose, sunflower oil, potassium chloride, natural flavors, calcium sulfate, sodium tripolyphosphate, guar gum, DLmethionine, taurine, salt, choline chloride, Vitamins [DL-alpha tocopherol acetate (source of vitamin E), thiamine mononitrate (vitamin B1), niacin supplement, biotin, D-calcium pantothenate, riboflavin supplement (vitamin B2), pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), vitamin B12 supplement, folic acid, vitamin D3 supplement], Trace Minerals [zinc proteinate, zinc oxide, iron sulfate, copper sulfate, manganous oxide, sodium selenite, calcium iodate], marigold extract.

IAMS Urinary-O dry:

Corn Grits, Chicken, Chicken By-Product Meal, Chicken Liver, Chicken By-Products, Fish Meal (source of Fish Oil), Dried Egg Product, Dried Beet Pulp (sugar removed), Potassium Citrate, Natural, Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed Tocopherols, a source of Vitamin E, and Citric Acid), Natural Chicken Flavor, Calcium Carbonate, DL-Methionine, Brewers Dried Yeast, Potassium Chloride, Salt, Choline Chloride, Vitamin E Supplement, Zinc Oxide, Manganese Sulfate, Niacin, Ascorbic Acid, Vitamin A Acetate, Copper Sulfate, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Rosemary Extract, Thiamine Mononitrate (source of Vitamin B1), Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (source of Vitamin B6), Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement (source of Vitamin B2), Vitamin D3 Supplement, Inositol, Folic Acid, Potassium Iodide, Cobalt Carbonate

IAMS Urinary-O canned:

Water, Chicken, Chicken Liver, Whitefish, Brewers Rice, Dried Egg Product, Chicken By-Products, Fish Meal, Dried Beet Pulp (sugar removed), Calcium Carbonate, Potassium Citrate, Potassium Chloride, Fish Oil (preserved with Ethoxyquin), Brewers Dried Yeast, Taurine, Choline Chloride, DL-Methionine, Vitamin E Supplement, Zinc Oxide, Manganese Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate (source of Vitamin B1), Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (source of Vitamin B6), Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement (source of Vitamin B2), Potassium Iodide, Folic Acid, Menadione Dimethylpyrimidinol Bisulfite (Vitamin K3)

Purina UR dry:

Corn gluten meal, beef, brewers rice, wheat flour, ground yellow corn, beef tallow preserved with mixed-tocopherols (source of Vitamin E), egg product, soybean flour, calcium carbonate, phosphoric acid, potassium chloride, animal digest, L-Lysine monohydrochloride, dicalcium phosphate, dried whey, salt, choline chloride, taurine, zinc oxide, ferrous sulfate, vitamin supplements (E, A, B-12, D-3), riboflavin supplement, niacin, calcium pantothenate, manganese sulfate, citric acid, biotin, thiamine mononitrate, folic acid, copper sulfate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of Vitamin K activity), calcium iodate, sodium selenite.

Purina UR canned:

Meat by-products, liver, chicken, water sufficient for processing, poultry by-products, brewers rice, calcium gluconate, oat fiber, guar gum, sodium bisulfate, potassium chloride, caramel color, carrageenan, salt, taurine, Vitamin E supplement, calcium phosphate, zinc sulfate, thiamine mononitrate, ferrous sulfate, manganese sulfate, Vitamin A supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride, copper sulfate, niacin, Vitamin B-12 supplement, riboflavin supplement, calcium pantothenate, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of Vitamin K activity), Vitamin D-3 supplement, folic acid, potassium iodide, biotin.

Hills comes in different flavors. I'm only including one.

Hill's c/d dry:

Brewers Rice, Corn Gluten Meal, Chicken By-Product Meal, Pork Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), Chicken Liver Flavor, Fish Oil, Potassium Chloride, Calcium Sulfate, Choline Chloride, Vitamin E Supplement, Iodized Salt, Potassium Citrate, vitamins (Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin, Vitamin A Supplement, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Folic Acid, Vitamin D3 Supplement), Taurine, minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), preserved with BHT and BHA, Beta-Carotene.

Hill's c/d canned:

Pork By-Products, Water, Pork Liver, Chicken, Rice, Corn Starch, Oat Fiber, Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), Fish Meal, Corn Gluten Meal, Chicken Liver Flavor, Calcium Sulfate, Guar Gum, Fish Oil, Brewers Dried Yeast, Glucose, DL-Methionine, Choline Chloride, Potassium Chloride, Taurine, Cysteine, Calcium Carbonate, Dried Egg Yolk, Glycine, Vitamin E Supplement, Iodized Salt, Potassium Citrate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Zinc Oxide, Ferrous Sulfate, Niacin, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Beta-Carotene, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin, Biotin, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Folic Acid, Calcium Iodate.

Looking at the above, I mostly wonder why Hill's is the most popular. If I had a cat and a veterinary diet was needed, SO wouldn't seem bottom of the barrel. Then again, I really wish someone were out there making really high quality veterinary diets.

Here's the closest we've got to that (my next post)...

[Miso Vegan]

:edge of seat:

[downwithapathy]

I've read no reviews of the following and have no idea if the stuff works.

Wysong Uratrar (dry only--available only through vets):

Beef, Beef Liver, Chicken, Chicken Liver, Ground Beef and Chicken Bone, Fish Oil, Coconut Oil, Ascorbic Acid, Cranberry, Uva Ursi, Milk Calcium, Plums, Lactoferrin, Lactoperoxidase, Barley Grass, Wheat Grass, Desiccated Sea Plankton, Artichoke, Dried Enterococcus faecium Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus plantarum Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus casei Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus lactis Fermentation Product, Dried Saccharomyces cerevisiae Fermentation Product, Dried Aspergillus oryzae Fermentation Product, Dried Aspergillus niger Fermentation Product, Phytase, Natural Extractives of Rosemary, Natural Extractives of Sage, Choline Chloride, Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin Supplement, Manganese Proteinate, Calcium Pantothenate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Copper Proteinate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin Supplement, Vitamin A Acetate, Folic Acid, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement.

There's also a struvite formula called Struvatrol. Both are high protein formulas (50%).

[squirrel]

I agree, Sonja. I've never liked Hill's foods. I prefer Royal Canin's ingredients.

[Miso Vegan]

Hill's c/d (then later w/d) was the only food that worked on my previous, UTI-prone cat (India), who would otherwise get a UTI within one bite of any other food.

[downwithapathy]

Now I wonder if I'm missing anyone. I believe Eukanuba has a prescription line for dogs but not cats. I think my Google skills are pretty solid, though. I also wish I liked Wysong more. I'm not sure why I don't, except for their vaguely Evolutionesqe way of tooting their own horn. They do have a solid reputation, though. You may as well ignore my paranoia.

[downwithapathy]

The one thing I can say in favor of all of these foods is that I'm happy there are multiple options. If Hill's were still the only option on the market and it didn't work for someone, that would be less than grand. Then there's the other part of me that says, "wow, these foods kind of suck."

[Miso Vegan]

yeah. I'm not thrilled about this. At least I'm not the poor college student I was when India needed CD, as I found it soooo expensive. Now, compared to what I use and sell at Sidecar, I'll probably consider it reasonable.

<--hates Evolutionesque self-promoting.

I've not paid any attention to quality of ingredient lists so I'll take both of your words on it that SO is better. But is there an easy way to explain why it's better? And is that a vet-only brand? (Just so I know where to start looking - stores versus clinics.)
Can anyone remind of the animal-testing status of these brands of foods? Or are they all guilty? (Excluding Wysong, I'm not going to go with that brand partly because I don't know where to find it around here and don't see a need to track it down.)

[downwithapathy]

All except for Wysong are guilty of animal testing. I'm not sure if any besides Hill's (Coglate Palmolive) and IAMs (P&G) are guilty of invasive testing. Royal Canin (Mars) and Purina (Nestle) do perform testing, but I'm not sure if it's palatability, invasive, or both. I'm also not of sure where they acquire their animals or what happens to them when their usefulness wanes.

From Royal Canin's Website:

Royal Canin's philosophy is therefore deliberately non-anthropomorphic.

In the field of canine and feline nutrition, some manufacturers put the owners first and use them as the basis of all innovation. At Royal Canin, we put the dog and the cat at the heart of our research process : this is a radically different approach.

Respect the Animal: The Animal before the owner.

1. No Consumer Surveys; only Animal Studies.

2. Improve our Knowledge permanently.

3. Offer products with precise nutritional scientifically proven answers.

4. Reject anthropomorphism. (nutrients versus ingredients)

5. Only prescribers and specialized distribution outlets can bring the "technical" message to the consumer.

...

Kennel and Cattery

It took a year’s planning and collaboration between Veterinarians, Dog Technicians and Cat Technicians to achieve the design of this kennels/cattery. This unique tool accommodates 128 dogs from 18 different breeds and 98 cats from 13 different breeds. They are looked after by animal keepers who are devoted to them. The animals’ wellbeing is ensured by a specially designed environment: pens, watering holes, games and music in the boxes. Palatability and digestibility trials are the only ones carried out (the animal makes a “blind test” as it chooses between two foods). Rest periods (one to three weeks) systematically alternate with these testing periods.

"Reject anthropomorphism. (nutrients versus ingredients)" <- For what it's worth, that bothers me. Caring about ingredients is not anthropomorphic. We could feed ourselves with low-quality but nutritionally adequate ingredients too. Some of us probably do.

[Miso Vegan]

I meant to say this earlier: Thank you, Sonja, for all this info.