Rat Care

[cupcakepants]

Originally Posted by SpeakForTheTrees

This weekend, I was over at someone's apartment who had three rats in a cage that was barely big enough for one of them. They didn't have a club house, a wheel and it seemed as though they were barely taken out to socialize. It was heartbreaking and the woman I was talking to seems totally flippant about all the information I and Matriarco were giving her about rat care because they were her roommates. But she also seemed just as unaffected when we were talking about her rabbits that had equally as depressing living conditions.

You might have gotten farther had you waited more than 15 minutes after being invited into her home to criticize the way that she and her roommates care for their companion animals.

[SpeakForTheTrees]

I am going to tread lightly here, because defending myself will do nothing but get me in trouble.
I think in some situations it is more important to speak up in defense of an animal than it to be tactful. Having said that, I would not say that I walked into her home and started criticizing her and her roommate disregarding their hospitality. In fact, throughout dinner, the conversation was not defensive, even when discussing companion animals and caring for them.

If she felt that I was an ungracious guest and acted very rudely, then I'm sorry for how I might have said the things I said, but not for having said it.

[seitanicvegan]

Originally Posted by vegan lamb

I think it was 20$ down the tube I wouldn't care about the money at all if they played with it or even amused them a little but it's a waste when they're scared of it haha

Honestly, I would just leave it in their cage. It may take awhile, but they'll eventually get used to it and figure out how it works. Once one of them gets the hang of it, the other one will probably follow right after. When I first put my Wodent Wheel in one of my old cages, it took awhile for my rats (adults at the time) to warm up to it, but several of them were positively addicted. Lord help me if I wanted to sleep on the sofa near that cage! The noise from the Wodent Wheel (which is actually much quieter than wire wheels) would have kept even me from sleeping.

Originally Posted by vegan lamb

When I got my rats I pretty much had to grab them and run because there were so many things I wanted to scold the woman for:
1. bedding that was probably pine

This would have made me uncomfortable and wary.

Originally Posted by vegan lamb

2. squirrel food with alfalfa pellets and big kernals of corn (especially after she declared rats could eat ANYTHING- cat food, dog food, squirrel food) I was like ummm no thanks i'm going to feed them rat food...

This would have made me leave.

Originally Posted by vegan lamb

3. picking them up by their tails since they "didn't seem to mind" HELLO IT'S A PART OF THEIR SPINE YOU DOLT

This would have made me leave.

Originally Posted by vegan lamb

4. the male and female kittens were still kept together at 6 weeks of age when they could possibly both be fertile

This would have made me leave.

I recommend never, ever adopting from this person again. She is breeding for cash, and I highly doubt that she has documented an extensive genetic/health history. I would lay odds that a lot of her clientele are snake people (whether she knows it or not). I'm sorry that you had to deal with this woman.

[seitanicvegan]

Originally Posted by SpeakForTheTrees

This weekend, I was over at someone's apartment who had three rats in a cage that was barely big enough for one of them. They didn't have a club house, a wheel and it seemed as though they were barely taken out to socialize. It was heartbreaking and the woman I was talking to seems totally flippant about all the information I and Matriarco were giving her about rat care because they were her roommates. But she also seemed just as unaffected when we were talking about her rabbits that had equally as depressing living conditions.

I'm sorry. I wouldn't go back there. Call me a pessimist, but I doubt she's going to change.

[cupcakepants]

Originally Posted by SpeakForTheTrees

I am going to tread lightly here, because defending myself will do nothing but get me in trouble.
I think in some situations it is more important to speak up in defense of an animal than it to be tactful. Having said that, I would not say that I walked into her home and started criticizing her and her roommate disregarding their hospitality. In fact, throughout dinner, the conversation was not defensive, even when discussing companion animals and caring for them.

If she felt that I was an ungracious guest and acted very rudely, then I'm sorry for how I might have said the things I said, but not for having said it.

What I heard was not her being "flippant", but her not knowing how to answer your questions. She has lived in that apartment for a very short time and rarely gets to see, much less speak to, her roommates or their companion animals. From what she told me when we were cleaning up later, she just didn't know what to say or how to react to being told that her roommate was a bad pet parent.

As for the bunnies, she rescued them from being put down after they'd been handed from home to home to home. They are poorly socialized with humans and get terrified being out when people are over. She would have probably told you their whole story had she not felt that doing so would open herself up to more criticism.

It seriously hurts my feelings to see one of the most caring, compassionate people I have ever met being written about this way when you've known her for all of two hours. In the few years that I've known her she's taken in and found homes for countless animals that other people didn't want or couldn't care for. She is the one who pushed me to become vegan, by proving to me that it was possible to be vegan and non-judgemental.

I feel awful that she was kind enough to let me use her home to host an event that was supposed to be about thanking some of the people who make my life happier, and she ended the evening feeling hurt.

[seitanicvegan]

I'm sorry, cupcakepants. After what you posted, I feel like I jumped on the bandwagon, so to speak. I should have kept my mouth shut.

I think I'm going to quietly back away and stay out of this now.

[lamb]

Originally Posted by seitanicvegan

This would have made me uncomfortable and wary.

This would have made me leave.

This would have made me leave.

This would have made me leave.

I recommend never, ever adopting from this person again. She is breeding for cash, and I highly doubt that she has documented an extensive genetic/health history.

So now I feel like a really bad person? It's frustrating but there just aren't many options around here, I refuse to go to the pet store, and no humane societies within 4-5 hours rescue rats I would never go to her again but at this time we just didn't have many better options... And i know you weren't trying to put me down, seitanic, i'm just sad there isn't a reputable breeder within 15 hours of here or atleast more adoption facilities. Thanks for the advice on the wheel, though! Were your rats scared or just uninterested?

[seitanicvegan]

Originally Posted by vegan lamb

So now I feel like a really bad person? It's frustrating but there just aren't many options around here, I refuse to go to the pet store, and no humane societies within 4-5 hours rescue rats I would never go to her again but at this time we just didn't have many better options... And i know you weren't trying to put me down, seitanic, i'm just sad there isn't a reputable breeder within 15 hours of here or atleast more adoption facilities. Thanks for the advice on the wheel, though! Were your rats scared or just uninterested?

I know how you feel, and no, you shouldn't feel bad. There are no decent breeders anywhere in northern California either. When I read about that breeder, I just cringed. I was standing in a pet store one day a few years ago, and this lady walks in with a plastic tub full of baby rats (unseparated and on pine, of course). She starts loading them into the "baby rats for sale" bin by grabbing their tails. I had to close my eyes and look away.

So many uninformed and/or uncaring people are breeding rats indiscriminately, especially after the Ratatouille movie. I have already heard (several times) of people marketing baby rats using the Ratatouille angle. And that's just where I live.

The main problem with rat lovers is that dedicated rat rescues are few and far between. For many people, the only options (besides buying from a pet store or breeder) are driving long distances to a rescue, hoping that a transport train can be set up, or getting lucky and finding adoptable rats at local SPCA or HS offices. It's not like puppies and kittens, where rescue operations are accessible in just about every town nationwide. Honestly, I feel fortunate that I have to drive through several hours of nightmare traffic to get to the nearest rescue. (I'm not being sarcastic. I really do have to make this drive, and the traffic is some of the worst in the state.)

Don't forget to keep posting pictures of your adorable babies. We should ratspeak them.

[lamb]

thanks, seitanic, i feel better Especially when i think back and realize i really did do everything i possibly could to get a rat from a rescue, i did a ton of homework and research and calling around, but north dakota just ain't where it's at.
It's so frustrating because the main consensus i get is that they're just uncaring, like "oh it's good enough" like it doesn' matter if it the food is right or the bedding is right, because it's close enough, they're just animals, they're just rats, they'll be okay with "almost." They survive, but i've always been a firm believer in doing everything you possibly can to ensure an animals' comfort. Even when i was a silly little meat eating kid animals really meant a lot to me, so I'm really excited about having the boys now, and i really appreciate all the info and advice, seitanic. Your experience has helped me to do the best i possibly can for indie and hobbes without extra trial and error. It's so rewarding to see them changing and growing every day on a diet that i know is nutritionally balanced and actually nurturing them and also watching them make their home- last night hobbes was making the bed in their little hut and popped his head out the door to take square after square of toilet paper from my boyfriend, and coming out to investigate when the stream of bedding eventually stopped.
That was a long, emotional post- it's one of those days ... but mostly i just wanted to say thanks seitanic (and everyone else that chimed in with help and advice!) for everything We love our boys so much and it's good to know we're doing all we can to make them comfortable and happy!

And pictures will ensue when i re-find my camera cable

[seitanicvegan]

Originally Posted by vegan lamb

i really did do everything i possibly could to get a rat from a rescue, i did a ton of homework and research and calling around, but north dakota just ain't where it's at.

Yes, you did!!! And it is such a refreshing change. I was very active in the rat community for several years, but I eventually left from frustration. One of my frustrations (and there were several) stemmed from people coming into the rat forums time after time asking for guidance or advice with this, that or the other thing ... and then not only refusing to take the advice (which came from experienced rescuers, breeders, veterinary assistants, and long-term rat lovers who knew a thing or two), but hemming and hawing about how it's "not the only way to do things." Drove me nuts. And it happened ALL the time.

Originally Posted by vegan lamb

It's so frustrating because the main consensus i get is that they're just uncaring, like "oh it's good enough" like it doesn' matter if it the food is right or the bedding is right, because it's close enough, they're just animals, they're just rats, they'll be okay with "almost."

Exactly!

Originally Posted by vegan lamb

last night hobbes was making the bed in their little hut and popped his head out the door to take square after square of toilet paper from my boyfriend, and coming out to investigate when the stream of bedding eventually stopped.

I can so see that. Rats sure are single-minded when they get bent on something.

[lamb]

Originally Posted by seitanicvegan

I was very active in the rat community for several years, but I eventually left from frustration. One of my frustrations (and there were several) stemmed from people coming into the rat forums time after time asking for guidance or advice with this, that or the other thing ... and then not only refusing to take the advice, but hemming and hawing about how it's "not the only way to do things."

i totally hear you, i say God bless animal welfare workers in humane societies and other groups for doing a job that i never could- too many people are just too careless for my tolerance and patience level. I'll send my donations and volunteer some hours but my soul couldn't take dealing day in and day out with people that just don't give a damn. That's why I didn't say anything to this woman, I knew nothing would sink in because "this was fine they're just pets" but i still wish i could soc her in the nose

but on a happier and fuzzier note, I found my cable cord for some more pictures of the boys!

-we picked some grass for them (in one of the pics) and it was like crack, i think they sat there and ate it till it was about gone!

[lamb]

Indie is such a make-out artist! He'll sit there and lick my entire face pretty much, it's so funny! But this time he settled for my thumb :P Seitanic you mentioned ratspeak- that'd be so funny! The one with Hobbes dragging my camera by the handle made me think of "I'm in Yer camera steelin ur picturzzz" haha

[seitanicvegan]

ur not doin it right! lemme show ya


ur aura iz hazy, but i tinks i sees sumpin ... tasty!


therez no room at teh inn


screw teh inn! i gots me some toilet paperz


mineminemineminemineminemine


WHOA! teh MOTHERLODE!!!


aaarrrrrggh! no pictures pwease ... bad fur day


how do we luvs our new mom? letz count teh wayz .... pfffft! juz check out teh tailz!


mkay, tailz iz tired ... we juz sleep in momz hair now

[lamb]

oh my god i'm dying!! you're so funny, that totally made my day! rotfl i love the "mkay tailz is tired..."

[lamb]

oh my god i'm dying!! you're so funny, that totally made my day! rotfl i love the "mkay tailz is tired..."