Jane Goodwell and Dairy Industry

violet7 · 04-27-2005, 09:18 AM

First I want to express my appreciation for Jane Goodwell for saving primates because I don't see any difference between killing people and those intelligent sensitive primates.
I hesitated to post my message because I don't want people to stop support her great projects to save primates but what kind of things about her upset me most is her support of dairy industry.
Robert Cohen spoke strongly against about her support of dairy industry on his website and I am very well aware of her involvement with dairy industry to promote consumption of dairy products.
I am upset because I love cows and calves as much as I love primates.
When I was reading Guide Post(I hate this magazine because of anti animal rights/anti vegan), I found article about a man who started selling Milk Chocolate to save endangered animals.
Do you believe Jane Goodwell called him and encouraged him for selling MILK chocolate bars?
Yes, she did.
I wonder exactly how many gallons of Milk he uses to make those Milk chocolate bars.
Millions or billions gallons?
Exactly how many MALE calves are killed in most inhumane ways for MILK production?
People, please check link below
www.chocolatebar.com/page.asp?id=2
infor@chocolatebar.com
comments@chocolatebar.com
Maybe he has good intention to save endangered species but what he is doing is he is trading cows and calves to endangered species.
He is contributing to DIRTY LITTLE SECRET of dairy farms.
I called Jane Goodwell but she was on vacation and I could not have chance to speak to her.
We all should ask her to stop supporting dairy industry.
I hope she is going to stop her involvement in dairy industry to get more supporters for her great projects to save primates.

Not to change the subject, I stop subscription of Guide Post because this magazine is anti animal rights/anti vegan magazine.
We all can see recipes using animals products on this magazine.

Tracy G · 04-27-2005, 10:19 AM

The Chimpanzee Bar co-created by Dr. Jane Goodall is vegan. The ingredients are: chocolate, unbleached water-filtered beet sugar, cocoa butter, soy lecithin, pure vanilla.

The Endangered Species Chocolate Company also sells a number of other vegan options, including the Bat Bar, Black Panther Bar, Grizzly Bar, Rainforest Bar, Sea Turtle Bar, Tiger Bar, Wolf Bar, Koala Bar, Marine Iguana Bar, Zebra Bar, and Chimp Mints. That's a lot of choices, certainly more than the mainstream corporations offer.

I'm not saying it's right to also manufacture milk chocolate.

But there are two ways of looking at this.

You can totally boycott companies which do anything remotely unvegan and, better yet, contact them to express your displeasure. That's valid. Lots of people take that approach.

Or you can reject a company's unvegan products and purchase the vegan ones, sending signals about your preferences through consumer demand. That's valid, too. Lots of people take that approach.

We've previously gone round and round on this topic in a thread about the Burger King veggie burger (which is now no longer vegan, or even less vegan than it once was, so it's all moot anyhow). I appreciate your passion for this subject, but I also wanted to point out that Goodall's Chimp bar is, in fact, vegan.

violet7 · 04-27-2005, 01:19 PM

Thank you for your reply Tracy G.
http://notmilk.com/kissofdeath.html
I was looking for article about Jane Goodall's involvement(support) in dairy industry on Robert Cohen's website but I don't have enough time to check all his links right now but I found his article about connection between consuming MILK chocolate bars and contribution to DIRTY LITTLE SECRET of dairy farms where millions(if not billions) of worthless MALE dairy calves are thrown in dead pile alive and let them freeze to death or starve to death.
Some calves are beaten to death with lead pipe or drowned to death in water!
Do you remember about dairy farm in Florida where several weeks old calves are kicked from track to ditch filled with water and drowned to death after they got shot several times?
These calves were drowned to death in bloody water and it took 15-20 minutes for these babies to drowned to death in bloody water.

Expert in farm animal department of well known Animal Welfare organization said killing unwanted worthless MALE dairy calves in cold blooded manner is not uncommon.
When I find enough time, I will post article about how MALE calves are killed.
It is heart breaking fact but anybody who are willing to educate general public about secret of dark side of dairy farms need to read.

violet7 · 04-27-2005, 01:32 PM

Tracy G, please don't misunderstand because what I am going to say is not about you but people who keep consuming MILK chocolate after they are exposed to most horrible execution of innocent totally defenseless dairy calves.

I think Robert Cohen put it right.
What is difference between true vegan and pretend vegan is when true vegan can say No to Torture and boycott MILK CHOCOLATE without difficulty but pretend vegans say, "Oh MILK Chocolate is my favorite snack. There is no way for me to stop eating it.
Some people care more about their pleasure of satisfying tastebuds than care about animals.

Tracy G · 04-27-2005, 03:29 PM

Thanks, violet7. I think you will be delighted to find that the vegans here are sincere. I don't know of anyone at VRF who would disagree with your feelings about the deaths of male calves, myself included. This is true even though I consider myself an environmental vegan, and not an animal rights activist per se.

I'd like to put this as gently as possible, because I can see that you put a great deal of faith in Robert Cohen's writings. I tend to be a skeptic myself, since he has a well-established history of... well, there's really no nice way to put this. Cohen appears to invent facts and distort scientific data to support his viewpoints. If you have the time and interest, here is one thread at VRF which captures the gist of it: "Robert Cohen tells vegans to eat eggs!!!!!". Follow the link to vegsource.com, if you like, to learn even more.

Regardless, I don't have a problem with the sale of dark chocolate as a fundraiser for the Jane Goodall Institute. Ideally, it would come from an all-vegan company, but we live in an imperfect world, and this company seems to be doing a better job than most of offering a range of vegan choices. So I have no plans to contact Goodall myself, but I would still be interested in reading her reply, if she gets back to you.

violet7 · 04-27-2005, 07:43 PM

Tracy G, thank you for your post but he is not telling people to eat eggs from chickens who are raised for slaughter.
He is telling people to eat eggs from chickens who are raised as companion animals.
When people keep chickens as companion animals they don't kill those chickens but let them to live until they die in old age.
Do you think I am naive?
I don't know exactly how many people are having chickens as companion animals and selling eggs of their companion chickens.
Now I am little confused but here is what he said.

>>For that reason, I often counsel sickly vegans by advising that they find the healthiest source of organic eggs. Locate farmers who raise chickens compassionately. Chickens who forage in the yard. Chickens who are companion animals and not birds raised for ultimate slaughter. <<

Tofuy · 04-27-2005, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tracy G

But there are two ways of looking at this.

You can totally boycott companies which do anything remotely unvegan and, better yet, contact them to express your displeasure. That's valid. Lots of people take that approach.

Or you can reject a company's unvegan products and purchase the vegan ones, sending signals about your preferences through consumer demand. That's valid, too. Lots of people take that approach.

way #3

stage a polite request supported by thousands of other activists and have the company change one of their products into being vegan!

remember Amy's vegetable pizza? it used to have honey and 1,000's of vegans wrote them letters, sent emails and faxed faxes requesting they remove or change the honey. they did. when i sent them a thank you letter telling them i appreciated what they had done and intended to support them as best i could, they sent me 2 big fat coupon books. and ALL the coupons were for vegan products!

Amy's

Tracy G · 04-27-2005, 10:01 PM

Amy's rocks, no doubt about it. Thanks for sharing that awesome info about the pizza, Tofuy, since I didn't know that before. I definitely do enjoy sending my business to Amy's though. I just placed a co-op order that includes a case each of Amy's breakfast burritos, tamale pot pies, refried beans with chilies, and minestrone soup. My husband and I will eat all that up over the next two months and then order some more when the truck comes again.

No, violet7, I do not think you are naive. This might sound sacrilegious, but actually, if I ever really needed to reincorporate an animal product into my diet for health reasons, my first choice would be eggs from pet chickens. I don't find eggs inherently unappetizing, and I actually have an acquaintance here who enjoys keeping exotic chickens as companions. They run around in her country yard and scratch for worms, and they lay an abundance of infertile eggs (in the oddest colors, like blue-green shells with intensely golden yolks). We used to get our eggs from her before I went vegan. I feel no guilt about that.

So, ahem, anyhow, no, that part didn't bother me. What bothered me was Cohen's loose play with nutritional information, both in that passage and in other writings. Again, I don't think you're naive, but I'm simply suggesting that you confirm any items of interest at notmilk.com with a second source. Some of his "facts" look convincing, but they don't hold up under more detailed analysis. I don't consider his statements to be reliable in and of themselves.

But being a bit of a skeptic by temperament, I rarely consider any single source to be reliable in and of itself. I do lots of double checks. Once in a while, I even change my opinion about something.

04-27-2005, 09:18 AM	#1
violet7 Rooted Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 71	Jane Goodwell and Dairy Industry First I want to express my appreciation for Jane Goodwell for saving primates because I don't see any difference between killing people and those intelligent sensitive primates. I hesitated to post my message because I don't want people to stop support her great projects to save primates but what kind of things about her upset me most is her support of dairy industry. Robert Cohen spoke strongly against about her support of dairy industry on his website and I am very well aware of her involvement with dairy industry to promote consumption of dairy products. I am upset because I love cows and calves as much as I love primates. When I was reading Guide Post(I hate this magazine because of anti animal rights/anti vegan), I found article about a man who started selling Milk Chocolate to save endangered animals. Do you believe Jane Goodwell called him and encouraged him for selling MILK chocolate bars? Yes, she did. I wonder exactly how many gallons of Milk he uses to make those Milk chocolate bars. Millions or billions gallons? Exactly how many MALE calves are killed in most inhumane ways for MILK production? People, please check link below www.chocolatebar.com/page.asp?id=2 infor@chocolatebar.com comments@chocolatebar.com Maybe he has good intention to save endangered species but what he is doing is he is trading cows and calves to endangered species. He is contributing to DIRTY LITTLE SECRET of dairy farms. I called Jane Goodwell but she was on vacation and I could not have chance to speak to her. We all should ask her to stop supporting dairy industry. I hope she is going to stop her involvement in dairy industry to get more supporters for her great projects to save primates. Not to change the subject, I stop subscription of Guide Post because this magazine is anti animal rights/anti vegan magazine. We all can see recipes using animals products on this magazine.

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04-27-2005, 10:19 AM	#2
Tracy G Reprazents Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 1,284	The Chimpanzee Bar co-created by Dr. Jane Goodall is vegan. The ingredients are: chocolate, unbleached water-filtered beet sugar, cocoa butter, soy lecithin, pure vanilla. The Endangered Species Chocolate Company also sells a number of other vegan options, including the Bat Bar, Black Panther Bar, Grizzly Bar, Rainforest Bar, Sea Turtle Bar, Tiger Bar, Wolf Bar, Koala Bar, Marine Iguana Bar, Zebra Bar, and Chimp Mints. That's a lot of choices, certainly more than the mainstream corporations offer. I'm not saying it's right to also manufacture milk chocolate. But there are two ways of looking at this. You can totally boycott companies which do anything remotely unvegan and, better yet, contact them to express your displeasure. That's valid. Lots of people take that approach. Or you can reject a company's unvegan products and purchase the vegan ones, sending signals about your preferences through consumer demand. That's valid, too. Lots of people take that approach. We've previously gone round and round on this topic in a thread about the Burger King veggie burger (which is now no longer vegan, or even less vegan than it once was, so it's all moot anyhow). I appreciate your passion for this subject, but I also wanted to point out that Goodall's Chimp bar is, in fact, vegan.

04-27-2005, 01:19 PM	#3
violet7 Rooted Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 71	Thank you for your reply Tracy G. http://notmilk.com/kissofdeath.html I was looking for article about Jane Goodall's involvement(support) in dairy industry on Robert Cohen's website but I don't have enough time to check all his links right now but I found his article about connection between consuming MILK chocolate bars and contribution to DIRTY LITTLE SECRET of dairy farms where millions(if not billions) of worthless MALE dairy calves are thrown in dead pile alive and let them freeze to death or starve to death. Some calves are beaten to death with lead pipe or drowned to death in water! Do you remember about dairy farm in Florida where several weeks old calves are kicked from track to ditch filled with water and drowned to death after they got shot several times? These calves were drowned to death in bloody water and it took 15-20 minutes for these babies to drowned to death in bloody water. Expert in farm animal department of well known Animal Welfare organization said killing unwanted worthless MALE dairy calves in cold blooded manner is not uncommon. When I find enough time, I will post article about how MALE calves are killed. It is heart breaking fact but anybody who are willing to educate general public about secret of dark side of dairy farms need to read.

04-27-2005, 01:32 PM	#4
violet7 Rooted Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 71	Tracy G, please don't misunderstand because what I am going to say is not about you but people who keep consuming MILK chocolate after they are exposed to most horrible execution of innocent totally defenseless dairy calves. I think Robert Cohen put it right. What is difference between true vegan and pretend vegan is when true vegan can say No to Torture and boycott MILK CHOCOLATE without difficulty but pretend vegans say, "Oh MILK Chocolate is my favorite snack. There is no way for me to stop eating it. Some people care more about their pleasure of satisfying tastebuds than care about animals.

04-27-2005, 03:29 PM	#5
Tracy G Reprazents Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 1,284	Thanks, violet7. I think you will be delighted to find that the vegans here are sincere. I don't know of anyone at VRF who would disagree with your feelings about the deaths of male calves, myself included. This is true even though I consider myself an environmental vegan, and not an animal rights activist per se. I'd like to put this as gently as possible, because I can see that you put a great deal of faith in Robert Cohen's writings. I tend to be a skeptic myself, since he has a well-established history of... well, there's really no nice way to put this. Cohen appears to invent facts and distort scientific data to support his viewpoints. If you have the time and interest, here is one thread at VRF which captures the gist of it: "Robert Cohen tells vegans to eat eggs!!!!!". Follow the link to vegsource.com, if you like, to learn even more. Regardless, I don't have a problem with the sale of dark chocolate as a fundraiser for the Jane Goodall Institute. Ideally, it would come from an all-vegan company, but we live in an imperfect world, and this company seems to be doing a better job than most of offering a range of vegan choices. So I have no plans to contact Goodall myself, but I would still be interested in reading her reply, if she gets back to you.

04-27-2005, 07:43 PM	#6
violet7 Rooted Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 71	Tracy G, thank you for your post but he is not telling people to eat eggs from chickens who are raised for slaughter. He is telling people to eat eggs from chickens who are raised as companion animals. When people keep chickens as companion animals they don't kill those chickens but let them to live until they die in old age. Do you think I am naive? I don't know exactly how many people are having chickens as companion animals and selling eggs of their companion chickens. Now I am little confused but here is what he said. >>For that reason, I often counsel sickly vegans by advising that they find the healthiest source of organic eggs. Locate farmers who raise chickens compassionately. Chickens who forage in the yard. Chickens who are companion animals and not birds raised for ultimate slaughter. <<

04-27-2005, 10:01 PM	#8
Tracy G Reprazents Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 1,284	Amy's rocks, no doubt about it. Thanks for sharing that awesome info about the pizza, Tofuy, since I didn't know that before. I definitely do enjoy sending my business to Amy's though. I just placed a co-op order that includes a case each of Amy's breakfast burritos, tamale pot pies, refried beans with chilies, and minestrone soup. My husband and I will eat all that up over the next two months and then order some more when the truck comes again. No, violet7, I do not think you are naive. This might sound sacrilegious, but actually, if I ever really needed to reincorporate an animal product into my diet for health reasons, my first choice would be eggs from pet chickens. I don't find eggs inherently unappetizing, and I actually have an acquaintance here who enjoys keeping exotic chickens as companions. They run around in her country yard and scratch for worms, and they lay an abundance of infertile eggs (in the oddest colors, like blue-green shells with intensely golden yolks). We used to get our eggs from her before I went vegan. I feel no guilt about that. So, ahem, anyhow, no, that part didn't bother me. What bothered me was Cohen's loose play with nutritional information, both in that passage and in other writings. Again, I don't think you're naive, but I'm simply suggesting that you confirm any items of interest at notmilk.com with a second source. Some of his "facts" look convincing, but they don't hold up under more detailed analysis. I don't consider his statements to be reliable in and of themselves. But being a bit of a skeptic by temperament, I rarely consider any single source to be reliable in and of itself. I do lots of double checks. Once in a while, I even change my opinion about something.