Chico Natural Foods co-op may carry meat!

[Emiloid]

Am I missing something, or is there no thread here about the Chico Natural Foods (CNF) meat issue? I know it's talked about in the CNF Members Meeting thread (http://www.veganrepresent.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7785), but it deserves its own thread, in my opinion.

So... our local co-op has been vegetarian since it began, wayyyy back before the beginning of time. (OK, I don't know how long--so sue me! Decades, I think.) Recently the co-op decided to consider selling meat. They are under pressure because a Trader Joe's opened up in town, and the Co-op is always having financial troubles to begin with, so they're hoping to gain a competitive edge by carrying meat. The final decision will be made through a vote by the co-op members.

In the meantime, the Chico vegans have been organizing educational acivities around this issue. We will attend a town hall meeting (Sept 6th), will be tabling at the co-op on the 23rd, and have been arranging trips to Farm Sanctuary almost every weekend to educate members and employees. Quagga and walrus have done an amazing job organizing all these activities! Grog too, maybe! :p (I'm not sure... when it comes to these things, I tend to say, "Tell me what to do and I'll do it!")

Anyway, the final votes will be cast on Sept 30th.

quagga and Mr quagga both wrote to the local papers. Mr Q wrote a letter to the editor, and quagga wrote a guest editorial. I just submitted my own letter to the editor! :o I've never written one before!

I guess I just wanted to let everyone know what's going on here in Chico. :)

[veganshawn]

Damn that sucks, that was one of the main reasons I never joined the Sacramento co op because they kept getting more and more meat and less and less vegan options.

[walrus]

I've done no work with this. It's been all quagga, all the time. She's been amazing. :smitten:

[quagga]

I just submitted my own letter to the editor! :o I've never written one before!


That is great, Emiloid!! The first letter is the hardest one to write. (Just like the first leaflet, which I have yet to hand out. :) )

Yes, the CNF issue has been an interesting one. The issue has come up in the past, once just before I moved here, and it was voted down, and again many years ago, when it was also voted down. VegChico (well, me, in the form of my letters to the editor and other materials) has been stressing the ethical issues of eating meat, as well as the environmental and health issues, of course. I think that it's safe to say that if VegChico weren't doing what little we are by way of letters to the editor and Farm Sanctuary Field Trips, nothing would have been said at all in defense of keeping store policy unchanged. So, I feel like we've made an effort.

I have no idea what the final vote will turn out to be. I think that this is the kind of issue that people just vote on without thinking too much. If you are a meat eater, I think that you will vote yes that the co-op should sell meat (uh, humanely raised, organic, and natural meat, of course -- ooh that makes me soo freaking angry!). If you are a vegetarian, you may vote one way or the other depending on how financially endangered you feel the co-op is. I hope to be pleasantly surprised, but in truth I don't hold my hopes too high.

I suppose I should post my guest commentary opus, eh?

[quagga]

OK, here it is, for posterity's sake. And since I've gone to the trouble of posting it, if anyone has feedback or comments to make it a stronger piece, I'd LOVE to have them. You can post them here or PM me if they're harsh and painful. :) I know some VegChico folks gave me some feedback, some of which I accepted and some of which I didn't. At the time, I mostly wanted to just get the piece tossed over the transom before I got cold feet, if you understand my meaning.

I was happy that this commentary ran in the issue of the paper that coincided with their Back To School insert for the returning college students. The field trips have not been a big success, and I'm not sure why. Probably b/c we haven't done any neighborhood postering.

Chico News and Review
August 10, 2006

CNF, look before you vote

As Chico Natural Foods members consider the ethical and economic question of whether the store should change its longstanding policy of not selling meat, a local vegan group, VegChico.com, has arranged for CNF members and staff to take a tour to meet the residents of Orland's Farm Sanctuary--cows, pigs, chickens, turkeys and others rescued from slaughter.

These are creatures that many of us only meet in plastic-wrapped packages. In fact they are real beings as smart and companionable as your pet dog or cat, but far more vulnerable.

Federal and state laws that cover cruelty to animals specifically exempt animals in agriculture. Additionally, consumers should be aware that the selling terms "free-range," "natural" and "humanely raised" are marketing terms; they are not legally defined. On-site investigations of "free-range" poultry operations have shown that these chickens are only marginally better treated, if at all, than chickens in more intensive factory farms. More clearly: All farmed animals are specifically exempted from the animal welfare laws that protect your pet dog and cat.

Vegetarianism isn't only about eating plants, and it's not about choosing animals over humans--it's about considering all the impacts of our food and lifestyle choices, one plate, one person, one world at a time. It's about changing our lifestyles so that we tread more softly and minimize our impact on a weary planet.

It's a real shame when a co-op that originated in the spirit of environmentalism, healthy living, community and membership forgets its roots and winds up emulating every other market instead of celebrating its strengths.

Missing from all the planned discussions are the voices of those thousands of animals who will wind up on the dinner plates of a few CNF customers if its 30-year policy of not carrying meat is changed. In a world filled with violence, the CNF meat-policy vote should be seen as a call for mercy and respect--for the planet, for farmed animals, for each of us as humans. It is a choice to eat meat, not a necessity.

Even omnivores can respect that there ought to be places in our town where suffering is not for sale. To fail to communicate pride in the ethical choices that we make is to concede the high ground to ignorance and conformity.

I invite CNF members and the general public to set aside some time to visit Orland's Farm Sanctuary during one of the upcoming free member tours and look into the eyes of the residents there. Three tours are scheduled in the next two months: Saturday (Aug. 12), Aug. 26 and Sept. 23. Details are available at CNF.

[quagga]

A few upcoming events relating to the CNF issue. Anyone care to fly in from out of town to participate??

*Wednesday, September 6
7pm - 9pm
CNF Meat Policy Public Forum
City Council Chambers
421 Main Street
This open event will feature two panels of three persons who will discuss the
pros(?) and cons of meat on our bodies, environment, economy, and culture. For the second hour, the public will have an opportunity to make statements and ask questions.

[This should be a lot of fun. No VegChico folkks will be on the panel -- I for one don't have the chops to be up in front of a public audience. My understanding is that the thing will be televised on public access! :O The interesting thing is, only the ~2,000 members of CNF are eligible to vote, but way more than members will be exposed to the topic.]

*Saturday, September 9
10am - ??
Big Bluff Ranch Tour
http://www.bigbluffranch.com/
Chico Natural Foods
818 Main Street
10am-??
Tour of a "free-range" cattle ranch in the North State to learn about free-range cattle farming, the quality of grass-fed beef, and small-scale slaughter practices. Meet at CNF to arrange carpools for the 1.5 hour one-way drive; carpool drivers may request a contribution to defray gas costs.

[A few Chico vegans will be attending this as witnesses, if nothing else -- Quagga, Walrus, Seitanic for sure.]

Saturday, September 23
Final Farm Sanctuary Tour
Chico Natural Foods
10a-1:30p
818 Main Street
Meet at CNF to arrange carpools; carpool drivers may request a contribution to defray gas costs.

[mamaquilla]

Quagga I really liked your piece, it was strait and to the point. Awsome :happy:

[bluedawg]

great article, quagga! i think it's awesome, all the work you are doing for this issue. :heart:

[bird]

Excellent writing, quagga!

[quagga]

Thanks, y'all. I think the piece reads really well to vegans, but maybe self-righteous, unattainable, etc. etc. to omnivores.

[Emiloid]

quagga, I really like your commentary. I'll post mine if/when it gets published, which will probably be next Thursday. It was hard to write because I had to pare it wayyyy down and not include a lot of supporting details. My first letter was about 600 words, and I thought I'd have to cut it down to 500. Turns out letters can only be 250 words! Eeep! :o

Oddly enough, even though I felt it was "done enough" to send in, I'm not so happy with my letter to post it here. I know what I had to cut out, and I see all the flaws, you know. :umm:

[quagga]

Oddly enough, even though I felt it was "done enough" to send in, I'm not so happy with my letter to post it here. I know what I had to cut out, and I see all the flaws, you know. :umm:

Heh! I know exactly how you feel, which is partly why I haven't posted the commentary or my other letters to the editor here on VRF.

250-300 words is not a lot, but on the other hand, who wants to read a long letter to the editor? Look at poor TonyVis, who was slowly crucified by us for, among other things, being too long winded. Ah, but I digress. I'm sure your letter is just fantastic. And you will have spoken for the animals, who would otherwise have no voice at all.

[veganshawn]

Great article, keep up the good work.

[Miso Vegan]

Emiloid, for future reference when writing Letters to Editors - and without having read your letter, so forgive me if this advice is irrelevant - the best way to get published (without a major hack-job) is to stick to one topic/aspect - so, instead of cruelty, environmental damage, and health, just pick one and give the supporting evidence for that one only. Write a separate letter (hey, you can come up with an alias, right?!) for a different aspect.

Good job writing the letter!! And Quagga, great editorial!

[quagga]

Emiloid, for future reference when writing Letters to Editors - and without having read your letter, so forgive me if this advice is irrelevant - the best way to get published (without a major hack-job) is to stick to one topic/aspect - so, instead of cruelty, environmental damage, and health, just pick one and give the supporting evidence for that one only. Write a separate letter (hey, you can come up with an alias, right?!) for a different aspect.

Good job writing the letter!! And Quagga, great editorial!

In our town, it seems almost all well-written brief letters to the editor get published, with minimal editing. That's the benefits of living in a small town. That said, Mr Q wrote two letters to the editor that were published in their entirety, except that the editor cut the nice quote that he wanted to use.

However, your advice is well-taken, simply in that it makes for a more effective letter for the readers.

[petaske'kwe']

The People's Food Co-op in Ann Arbor, MI recently started selling meat. Previously, there were a few animal items in the freezer (turkey dogs, frozen chickens), but now there is a whole refrigerator case of it. I hope this trend won't continue nationwide. :umm: :no:

[hazelfaern]

Quagga, I've seen quite a number of opinion pieces and I'd have to say your article is very well written, even-handed and compelling. Really, really awesome work. Are you voicing strong opinions? Sure, but if you weren't, would it be newsworthy? :no:

I think any charged issue is going to create some controversy -- that's the nature of the beast. The one thing we can control is how well we present our perspectives on any issue, and I think you've done a very good job of that with your article. :kiss:

[grog]

debate on this tonight, 7-9, chico city hall, be there or be not there.

[Dandelion]

tape it TAPE IT!

[grog]

they taped it. Quagga will try to get a copy. Not terribly exciting stuff. I should have thrown a chair, but they were all screwed down.

[walrus]

I didn't realize until tonight that this is an "advisory" vote versus a "decisive" (I can't remember what word they used, I'm already swimming in alcohol) vote. So basically the members can vote one way but the board can make a decision either way. Stupid!

[quagga]

There were many highlights to the evening, but being compared to Hitler ranks up among the top 10. This was not part of the forum, just some yokel who came up, made that comment and rode off on his bike. He didn't even stay for the forum.

Ah the public. The encounter left me shaking.

[veganshawn]

There were many highlights to the evening, but being compared to Hitler ranks up among the top 10. This was not part of the forum, just some yokel who came up, made that comment and rode off on his bike. He didn't even stay for the forum.

Ah the public. The encounter left me shaking.

How did he compare you to Hitler? That is lame, you should have thrown a stick in his spokes :) (j/k by the way)

[Miso Vegan]

:o


He must've just heard Prex Bush's speech....

[walrus]

There were many highlights to the evening, but being compared to Hitler ranks up among the top 10. This was not part of the forum, just some yokel who came up, made that comment and rode off on his bike. He didn't even stay for the forum. Ah the public. The encounter left me shaking.
I'm sorry, quagga! I wish I could've been there. I could've thrown the "So were Ghandi and Einstein, so what's your point?!" line in there. But, I probably would've been shaking too. :D

[veganshawn]

Wait everyone here knows that Hitler wasn't a vegetarian right, if not I demend you go out and get Eternal Triblinka (sp?)it spells out how it was all a myth with really good sources to back it up.

[grog]

Yeah, I'd already gone in or I would have gone groggy on his ass.

[quagga]

I'm sorry, quagga! I wish I could've been there. I could've thrown the "So were Ghandi and Einstein, so what's your point?!" line in there. But, I probably would've been shaking too. :D

The dude looked at the nice posters that Mr Q made with Gandhi and Einstein quotes and called Einstein a wife-beater. Wacko. He said something about Gandhi, too, but I didn't follow. I asked him what his point was, no human beings are perfect. He called me a fanatic at one point for thinking that I could impose my views on others.

[quagga]

Wait everyone here knows that Hitler wasn't a vegetarian right, if not I demend you go out and get Eternal Triblinka (sp?)it spells out how it was all a myth with really good sources to back it up.

I told him that was anecdotal and what was the point anyway. He said the Germans pushed vegetarianism at the time of the Nazis. I asked if he was equating vegetarianism with nazism - point blank, several times. He then asked me if I was trying to push his buttons and get him to say something he didn't want to. Wacko.

[quagga]

Yeah, I'd already gone in or I would have gone groggy on his ass.

Mr Q said the same thing! He said I should have gone in with everyone else instead of staying behind at the table. Eventually I did go in, of course, where I rather enjoyed the forum. Of course I would have enjoyed a root canal after the encounter with the wacko.

[veganshawn]

I told him that was anecdotal and what was the point anyway. He said the Germans pushed vegetarianism at the time of the Nazis. I asked if he was equating vegetarianism with nazism - point blank, several times. He then asked me if I was trying to push his buttons and get him to say something he didn't want to. Wacko.

That idiot needs to read some real history, one of the first things Hitler did was outlaw vegetarian groups and shut down their magazine.

[quagga]

That idiot needs to read some real history, one of the first things Hitler did was outlaw vegetarian groups and shut down their magazine.

The wacko also said that if Hitler had kept his views on Jews to himself it would have been okay, just as it would have been okay if I kept my vegan views to myself. We were equated because we both tried to "impose" our views on others. Crazy.

[grog]

oh so this was in the foyer, not outside? so he rode up, went into the foyer, harassed you, then left?

[bird]

The wacko also said that if Hitler had kept his views on Jews to himself it would have been okay, just as it would have been okay if I kept my vegan views to myself. We were equated because we both tried to "impose" our views on others. Crazy.He should have taken his own advice and kept his mouth shut.

[quagga]

oh so this was in the foyer, not outside? so he rode up, went into the foyer, harassed you, then left?

He was outside, I guess, talking with the CNF folks. He was helping bring in the tables and stuff to the foyer, which is when I encountered him.

[Dandelion]

The wacko also said that if Hitler had kept his views on Jews to himself it would have been okay, just as it would have been okay if I kept my vegan views to myself. We were equated because we both tried to "impose" our views on others. Crazy.
it's silly when they bring up this imposition accusation when they make the greatest imposition on the animals.

[grog]

He was outside, I guess, talking with the CNF folks. He was helping bring in the tables and stuff to the foyer, which is when I encountered him.

You could ask the CNF folks if they know him and if he is a member. Just to find out if he's a specific helper, or just a random nutjob we'll never see again.

[walrus]

God, quagga, I'm so sorry you had to deal with that! What a nightmare. Hopefully none of us ever see him again.

You're sure it wasn't Irwin? :laugh:

[quagga]

The wacko also said that if Hitler had kept his views on Jews to himself it would have been okay, just as it would have been okay if I kept my vegan views to myself. We were equated because we both tried to "impose" our views on others. Crazy.

it's silly when they bring up this imposition accusation when they make the greatest imposition on the animals.

Silly and unpatriotic (as in the right to free speech). Funny, I can't recall exactly what he looked like.

I brought up the millions of animals killed right after that -- but I can't remember how exactly. It's all a blur. I shoulda had a copy of "Even If You Like to Eat Meat" at hand. I had plenty of material in my little bag, I just didn't think of it.

[Emiloid]

Grrr. If I'd been there, I would have gone all Emiloidy on his behind! :mad:

OK, I probably would have done exactly what quagga did--remained reasonable on the surface, while becoming very upset on the inside. He sounds like a real jerk, and a coward as well.

Oh yeah, on another note, it looks like my letter wasn't published. I'm actually mostly relieved, though a bit miffed at the same time. :p I'm relieved because I didn't especially like the letter I wrote. However, it seems like they take rambling crap from just about anyone, so why not my letter? (It wasn't even rambling crap!) I have to assume they're getting tired of the subject. As far as I could see, there were no letters on the CNF meat issue at all, but for the past few weeks there have been 1-3 letters each issue. (It's a weekly paper, BTW.) They probably need to move on to new stories. Too bad the vote isn't for another few weeks.

[Emiloid]

I didn't realize until tonight that this is an "advisory" vote versus a "decisive" (I can't remember what word they used, I'm already swimming in alcohol) vote. So basically the members can vote one way but the board can make a decision either way. Stupid!

Yeah, they really didn't make that clear until last night. I think the word they used was "non-binding". WTF?!? Maybe that's a good thing, though. If the votes are close, they'll have to discuss it some more... and the votes could be close, but in favor of carrying meat.

[quagga]

Grrr. If I'd been there, I would have gone all Emiloidy on his behind! :mad:

OK, I probably would have done exactly what quagga did--remained reasonable on the surface, while becoming very upset on the inside. He sounds like a real jerk, and a coward as well.

Oh yeah, on another note, it looks like my letter wasn't published. I'm actually mostly relieved, though a bit miffed at the same time. :p I'm relieved because I didn't especially like the letter I wrote. However, it seems like they take rambling crap from just about anyone, so why not my letter? (It wasn't even rambling crap!) I have to assume they're getting tired of the subject. As far as I could see, there were no letters on the CNF meat issue at all, but for the past few weeks there have been 1-3 letters each issue. (It's a weekly paper, BTW.) They probably need to move on to new stories. Too bad the vote isn't for another few weeks.

I noticed that they didn't publish your letter, either. The other thing that controls publication is: when did you send it in? I believe that the paper probably had a short week b/c of the holiday, so maybe that played a role. I'm sure that it wasn't b/c of the quality of your letter.

[Emiloid]

I sent it on Sunday evening. Maybe that explains it? :confused:

[quagga]

I sent it on Sunday evening. Maybe that explains it? :confused:

On a holiday weekend, yes, that might be the explanation. Maybe they'll hold it till next week.

[Emiloid]

On a holiday weekend, yes, that might be the explanation. Maybe they'll hold it till next week.
Nooooooooooooooooo! :p

[Chijou_no_seiza]

To fail to communicate pride in the ethical choices that we make is to concede the high ground to ignorance and conformity.

This was very well said, and the best part of the letter in my opinion. I'm so saving this quote! :)

[quagga]

This was very well said, and the best part of the letter in my opinion. I'm so saving this quote! :)

Thank you!

[quagga]

*Saturday, September 9
10am - ??
Big Bluff Ranch Tour
http://www.bigbluffranch.com/
Tour of a "free-range" cattle ranch in the North State to learn about free-range cattle farming, the quality of grass-fed beef, and small-scale slaughter practices.

So, we went on this trip on Saturday - Walrus, Seitanic, and myself. I think we surprised the co-op general manager by our presence, but she rolled with the punches. For myself, I wanted first-hand knowledge of the ranch. One thing that made me happy was that this tour didn't have any better attendance than the FS tours I led. There was a group of about four or five people who had read a newspaper article about the tour and they went, but I don't think they were co-op members. Poor Seitanic got there first and had to listen to talk among these people about butchering and steaks--these people were even more disturbing as the tour continued as they were also hunters and just way-serious carnivores. Anyway, I think that there was perhaps one co-op member aside from the Chico Vegans who attended, plus about three co-op staff members. Not wanting to go incognito to this event, I even wore my "vegan" baseball shirt.

So, the tour was interesting, but we never really saw any cattle, only their herd of sheep that produce lambs for sale. We also learned that their production levels are such that they wouldn't be able to distribute to the co-op anyway, so the whole tour was bogus wrt to the co-op meat issue, because this tour does not show the husbandry of the animal flesh that it will actually be selling.

What they seemed to demonstrate was a marked improvement in the quality of their soil by the way they graze and move their animals over the past decade. They have more perennial grasses and fewer annual invasives (which is more like the native prairie in the foothills of California). This, in turn, has improved the hydrology of the area, leading to a re-vegetation of the streambanks in the area and return of beaver, turtles and other native species (we saw the beaver dam and young cottonwoods, willows and other riparian species). Essentially, they are learning to manage their domestic grazers to mimic the once-native herds of elk, pronghorn, and deer. Please don't take this as any kind of endorsement of grass-fed cattle raising practices, I'm just stating what I saw, and I think I know enough about the local ecosystems to think that their environmental claims are happening in part because of the way they manage their cattle.

I could go on and on about their ranching practices, but I think I'll hold off. Suffice it to say, at the end of tour, we were gathered in their home where they offered the group cookies (homemade, and they actually apologized for them being non-vegan), tea, and probably some of the best peaches I have had all summer. I screwed up my courage to ask some hard questions--did they castrate and de-horn their animals without anesthesia? Yes and yes, but their cattle are polled cattle, and generally don't have horns. I asked if they sold veal -- and they were quick to answer no. I think our presence as vegans kept the group (and esp the CNF staff) from discussing quality (read: taste), slaughter, and recipes. I did not feel comfortable enough to ask more hard questions, and totally forgot to ask why we didn't see any cattle. This was the first time I have ever talked to a rancher directly.

[Miso Vegan]

You go, brave quagga! :sunny:

[Dandelion]

you rock it girl! :thumbsup:
I can't believe you are pro-grassfed now! ;)

[hazelfaern]

Sounds like an intense experience. Thanks for sharing this, quagga :)

[quagga]

One more thing -- the rancher was quick to clarify that grass-fed does not equal humane. I thought that was pretty honest of him, because certainly the perception of many people is that it is.

And I guess this fellow was not the absolute first rancher I have talked with -- that honor would go to Howard Lyman. :)

The trip was intense and I certainly felt like I was walking into a den of wolves, but the encounter with the wacko who compared me to Hitler was much more unpleasant and literally nerve-wracking. I think the difference was that on the ranch tour I had support from walrus and seitanic, but I was all alone in the encounter with the wacko. So I want to thank Walrus and Seitanic for being there and for asking questions as well--we all had things that we would rather have been doing on a lovely Saturday afternoon.

[walrus]

quagga did an outstanding job of asking questions. I didn't ask any questions! All I did was make little jokes under my breath to others who did not find them funny. :D

On the way there my stomach was in knots and I felt ill. At some point during the tour that went away, and I wonder if it was because we didn't see the cattle, or they weren't pointed out to us anyway.

It was actually a pleasant experience except for the droning on and on about the grass that was sprouting up from the ground. Oh, and they had a dog with a sore on his side that I pointed out to them but they made light of. :(

[gur]

On the way there my stomach was in knots and I felt ill.

i'd feel the same way.

kudos to the three of you for going! quagga, you rock for asking them questions! brave warriors. :)

[quagga]

quagga It was actually a pleasant experience except for the droning on and on about the grass that was sprouting up from the ground. Oh, and they had a dog with a sore on his side that I pointed out to them but they made light of. :(

For me the grass was the most exciting part! :laugh: It was like pointing out buds on a plant that will turn into beautiful flowers later, or leaf buds at the end of fall after all the leaves have fallen.

I noticed the sore on the dog, too, but didn't remember to say anything. I'm so glad you said something, Walrus. Too bad they were blase about it.

[quagga]

Chico Enterprise-Record (http://chicoer.com/features/ci_4327731)
9/13/2006
By STEVE BROWN - Staff Writer

Panel debates whether food co-op should sell meat

"If yer don't eat yer meat, how can you have any pudding?
How can you have any pudding if yer don't eat your meat?"
— from "The Wall"
by Pink Floyd

"Heifer whines
could be human cries
Closer comes
the screaming knife
This beautiful creature must die
This beautiful creature must die
A death for no reason
And death for no reason
is murder" — from "Meat is Murder"
by the Smiths


In a figurative sense, meat can be murder to talk about. A subject that touches on nutrition, ethics, economics and the environment can stir up a lot of emotions.

How can people get beyond the acrimony and other emotions the issue raises?

That was one of the questions a panel addressed last week at a public forum sponsored by Chico Natural Foods. The 1,700 members of the food cooperative are being invited to vote this month on whether the store should sell meat.

Emily Alma's response was "we have bigger fish to fry. We've got a world to change." Alma, one of the co-op's founding members, said she's distressed at the level of anger "between purists and carnivores" the issue has generated

Randy Larsen, a Chico Natural Foods member for more than 20 years, said he doesn't "relish the idea of creating conflict," but thinks the proposal, which views meat as "a new revenue source," is distressing. "Animals are our brothers and sisters on this planet." He pointed out that "27 million animals a day are eaten in this country. Our store should be a refuge from that kind of violence in an ever-increasingly violent world."

Larsen has taught business ethics courses at Chico State University.

The six-member panel had three "no-meat" and three "meat-inclusive" advocates.

At the start of the program, longtime Chico Natural Foods member Laurel Blankinship, who moderated the panel, called for a "healthy debate, where people can honestly disagree."

"And no food fights," she joked.

During the hour-long panel discussion, which was held in the City Council Chambers, the audience applauded some of the speakers. Nobody was booed.

Robb Wolf, a former Chico Natural Foods board member, said evolutionary biology suggests that the "hunter-gatherer" diet of the Paleolithic age, which consisted mainly of lean meat proteins and fruits, was healthy. He said it was only when people turned to agriculture and introduced grains and legumes into their diet did nutrition levels began to decline.

Wolf, a one-time vegan who is now an omnivore, said grass-fed meat has "extremely low fat levels. Eating grass-fed meat is like taking a nutritional supplement."

But Jennifer Andrews, a current Chico Natural Foods board member, flatly declared "there's no reason to eat meat." She said a vegetarian diet reduces the risk of everything from hypertension and heart disease, to gallstones and kidney stones. She said people who avoid eating meat are exposed to fewer "carcinogens, mutagens and pesticides." She said vegetarian diets are higher in fiber and lower in cholesterol.

Andrews, who has a master's degree in nutrition education, said studies suggest that people under 40 who eat a vegetarian diet may add eight years to their lives if they're male, seven years if they're female.

Alma argued that each human body differs in its nutritional needs. "The predator-prey relationship is just as appropriate for humans as it is for other omnivores in the food chain." She said although she's mainly a vegetarian "there are times when I get a craving for meat. I think it's different than a craving for sugar or for the extra roll you shouldn't have."

Alan Gair, who has worked in the food marketing and advertising business, said he has no argument about the value of a vegetarian diet. But he said Chico Natural Foods needs to change its approach. "You're being selfish and exclusive. Hardly anybody goes into your store. Hardly anybody knows you exist. You have to open your doors to the whole population and not be censorious. Modern retailing will crush you."

Greg Tropea, a restaurant owner, former Chico Natural Foods board president and interim general manager of the store in 2003, said "being a 'me, too' store is boring, boring, boring. There's no life, there's no spice. There's a sameness of choices."

He said Chico Natural Foods needs to "evangelize" for both a vegetarian diet and a co-op economy, which is "a radical alternative to absentee-owner capitalism."

Chico Natural Foods has already established its niche, "but we need to develop it," Tropea said. "We need to be who we are and we need to do it really well."

RachelOriana Schraeder, Chico Natural Foods general manager, said regardless of whether meat is sold, the store will continue to uphold high ethical, environmental and health standards in the foods its sells.

She said because the store is a co-op the shareholders have "equal democratic control" and their vote will decide whether the store sells meat.

Schraeder noted that Chico Natural Foods is not like other stores. "To use a playful metaphor, we are bananas in a world of apples and oranges." Expanding on the metaphor, she said, "we are fair-trade, organic fruit."

At the time of the panel discussion, 200 members had cast ballots.

Each member will receive a ballot in the mail. Sept. 30 is the last day to vote. Membership costs $25 a year per household.

[quagga]

The author of the article failed to report Randy Larsen's quip to the Paleolithic former vegan -- that perhaps the co-op should turn into a "fruit and meat store." Randy was full of these incisive statements that just cut to the ridiculous quick of the "meat-inclusive" panel. I'm still working on getting the video.

Robb Wolf, a former Chico Natural Foods board member, said evolutionary biology suggests that the "hunter-gatherer" diet of the Paleolithic age, which consisted mainly of lean meat proteins and fruits, was healthy. He said it was only when people turned to agriculture and introduced grains and legumes into their diet did nutrition levels began to decline.

Wolf, a one-time vegan who is now an omnivore, said grass-fed meat has "extremely low fat levels. Eating grass-fed meat is like taking a nutritional supplement."

[Emiloid]

Randy Larsen also talked about the issue on his show EcoTalk last night on KZFR. His guests were Emily Alma (a panelist) and Jim Brobeck (who was supposed to be a panelist, but had a sub in his place--I don't know why). It was a good discussion, but at times frustrating in the same way the meeting was: that there's a fundamental difference of opinion, outlook, and information between the two sides that prevents a consensus. But isn't that always the way...? :umm:

eta: Randy, as usual, made some excellent points. Jim Brobeck was talking about how much better it is for the land if we graze ungulates on it, to replicate the effect of deer, elk, bison, and so on that lived on the land before we exterminated them. He said in effect, "we have to kill some or the herd will just keep growing and growing." Randy said (and I'm paraphrasing), "I don't understand one thing: why do you need to breed them?" Jim went on about dairy for a while, saying you need to breed the cows to "freshen" their milk production, blah blah blah. Randy asked, "Why do you need them to make milk? Why do they need to do anything besides keep the land in good shape?" Jim said, "Well, they breed on their own anyway," and Randy countered with the suggestion that if it's really about concern for the land, why not just spay and neuter your livestock? Jim's reply to that was that some people are not as sentimental about animals, and they know the place of livestock in the "energy cycle". *sigh*

[quagga]

Randy Larsen also talked about the issue on his show EcoTalk last night on KZFR. His guests were Emily Alma (a panelist) and Jim Brobeck (who was supposed to be a panelist, but had a sub in his place--I don't know why). It was a good discussion, but at times frustrating in the same way the meeting was: that there's a fundamental difference of opinion, outlook, and information between the two sides that prevents a consensus. But isn't that always the way...? :umm:

Ya shoulda given us a heads-up on the radio show!

[Emiloid]

Ya shoulda given us a heads-up on the radio show!
I know. I'm so sorry! :embarr: I actually came into it half-way through the show, at 6:27 or so, but I wasn't sure if it ended at 6:30 or 7pm. I thought I'd wait to find out... and then I plumb forgot!

[quagga]

I know. I'm so sorry! :embarr: I actually came into it half-way through the show, at 6:27 or so, but I wasn't sure if it ended at 6:30 or 7pm. I thought I'd wait to find out... and then I plumb forgot!

'sallright. I just need to get into the habit of listening to EcoTalk!

[Emiloid]

Eeep! I was just cleaning out my Outlook inbox and found this, dated Monday Spet 4th:

This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification.

THIS IS A WARNING MESSAGE ONLY.

YOU DO NOT NEED TO RESEND YOUR MESSAGE.

Delivery to the following recipients has been delayed.

chicoletters@newsreview.com


So maybe they just didn't get my letter in time?

[quagga]

The Chico NPR radio station will have the general manager of Chico Natural Foods regarding its meat policy.

Septebmer 25, 2006
8:00pm - 9:00pm (Pacific Time)
KCHO - 91.7
"I-5 Live"
This is a live call-in show.

You can tune into the show (I think) via the station's internet stream here. (http://kcho.org/listen/listen.asp)

[hazelfaern]

Thanks for the updates Quagga and Emiloid!

[quagga]

Thanks for the updates Quagga and Emiloid!

If you're not otherwise occupied, ARA* hazelfaern, I expect you to call in!! :D

*Animal Rights Activist

[walrus]

omg, I totally, like, called in and got on the air and stuff.

:banana:

[Dandelion]

oh dang! i meant to listen in!

[quagga]

Walrus did indeed dial in! She reprazented well, too. Significantly, she reminded the omnivores searching for some justification for eating animals [the happy meat scenario] that (1) FS rescues not only factory farmed animals, but also has many animals that come from organic, humane, free-range operations, and (2) that any animal raised for food sees a grisly, sad end in the slaughterhouse.

Go Walrus, the voice for the voiceless! :banana:

No counterargument ensued from either the host or the CNF general manager.

Stoopid me, I failed to write down the number to dial in on, and wasn't able to call when I got up the nerve to do so. Bad quagga!

[walrus]

I knew I could count on quagga to do a better recap than me. :D

Don't worry about not jotting down the number. I almost didn't jot it down either, but decided to at the last minute. I didn't even expect to call in, and then I remembered what you had said to me after the debate, about representing Farm Sanctuary and the animals we have there. Talk about feeling stoopit!

I can't believe she only said it once at the beginning, and once in the middle of the show. Most people (heh) don't write it down, so it's important to burn it into their memories over and over again!! I actually wrote it down wrong the first time and was glad when she said it again, but wondered why it took her so long to repeat it.

BTW, was Mr. quagga around to hear any of the show? I would love to hear his thoughts on *ahem* R.O.S.

[Miso Vegan]

That's silly - our call-in shows here repeat it constantly even when there are so many calls in the queue that not everyone gets to speak.

Way to reprazent, walrus!! :)

[quagga]

That's silly - our call-in shows here repeat it constantly even when there are so many calls in the queue that not everyone gets to speak.

Yeah, well, this is Chico.

This station has actually failed to mention the call-in number during pledge drives.

[bird]

Yeah, well, this is Chico.

This station has actually failed to mention the call-in number during pledge drives.Ha, that's fantastic. I want to move there.

Way to go, walrus! Thanks for the recap, quagga!

[bluedawg]

nice job, walrus!!

[quagga]

BTW, was Mr. quagga around to hear any of the show? I would love to hear his thoughts on *ahem* R.O.S.

The show made him very angry, and he actually had to stop listening for a bit. Like a moth to the flame, however, he couldn't keep away and tuned in to hear Walrus call in. But then he had to tune out when the vegetarian pro-meat ex-CNF board member called in.

There was just so much that went unchallenged, you know? Like the paleolithic diet ex-vegan, discussions about hormone-free milk without acknowleging atrocities like Horizon Milk's drylot dairies (CNF carried Horizon for a while, but then stopped -- but this fact was was not acknowledged by the general manager.), the claims that eating a little bit of meat makes many people feel better, the very idea that carrying meat will actually improve the business at the store (which it can't in the absence of sensible marketing, advertising, and outreach), the idea that a co-op that sells meat can have an influence on the "dialogue" that will ultimately lead to a change in the agriculture business (the Whole Foods compassionate meat scenario--it might be true, but it's grasping at straws as far as the scope of CNF goes), bemoaning the change in consumer choices away from bulk foods and whole foods to pre-packaged convenience foods (well, hello! maybe CNF needs to do more outreach and education to help educate folks on the sound economic and environmental basis for non-corporate, non-packaged purchases). And so on.

One clip they played from the debate was telling -- a guy with experience in grocery marketing said that the meat policy forum and the subsequent debate was the single largest outreach effort that CNF has done in the past five years. You know what? That guy was dead-on right. CNF has no newsletter, no advertising, no real website or other web presence; it doesn't even do outreach to CSUC, which is only 6 blocks away.

Aaargh. Don't get me going.

[Emiloid]

I'm so sorry I missed that show. I completely forgot. But anywhoooo... way to go walrus! I'm so glad to hear you called in! Woooot! :sunny:

Also, remember to cast your vote if you haven't already! (Like me!) The voting ends this Saturday, if I'm not mistaken.

[quagga]

Also, remember to cast your vote if you haven't already! (Like me!) The voting ends this Saturday, if I'm not mistaken.

Cast your ballot by 10pm on Saturday, September 30.

[quagga]

The ballots have been tallied:

188 - NO on meat
427 - YES on meat

615 ballots cast out of approximately 1700-1800 members.

35% of members voted on this issue

There will be a Board of Directors Meeting on Monday, October 9 at KZFR radio, 341 Broadway at 5:30pm to discuss the ramifications and implementation of the advisory vote.

[mamaquilla]

bah, im so sorry quagga
hugs

[quagga]

bah, im so sorry quagga
hugs

Thanks. I am, to say the least, pretty depressed about this. I thought perhaps that the vote would be closer.

I was approached by a Board member to provide some input on what sources the co-op would go to as they get their animal flesh because the BOD simply has no idea about the poor conditions that even free-range animals go through--slaughterhouse conditions exempted of course--so it would be an educational opportunity. My gut says not to have any part of it, mostly because I've been extremely moved by Mountainvegan's abolitionist posts.

However, I'd appreciate some suggestions on approaches to take where I can preserve my AR stance and yet keep the lines of communication open. Ways to be gentle but firm.

[Miso Vegan]

Oh quagga, what a disappointment. I'm not really surprised, but still really saddened. :cry:

Could you see about a tour of a "free range" facility for the BOD? I wouldn't blame you for wanting no part in it, yet this could turn into a chance to have some one-on-ones whereby, even though the mebership voted for it, the board members on an individual basis concludes it's despicable.

[grog]

The ballots have been tallied:

188 - NO on meat
427 - YES on meat

615 ballots cast out of approximately 1700-1800 members.

35% of members voted on this issue

There will be a Board of Directors Meeting on Monday, October 9 at KZFR radio, 341 Broadway at 5:30pm to discuss the ramifications and implementation of the advisory vote.

:mad: I wonder what would have happened with a straight up or down vote, this "yes on meat with 8 different qualifications so you'll agree with at least one and vote yes" and "the whole current board and store employees are pro-meat" approach leaves me a bit jaded ;)

[gur]

i'm sorry chicoans; that's horrible news. :(
misovegan had a good suggestion about the tour - maybe you could work a tour of a slaughterhouse for them in there too. ;)

[quagga]

Thanks for the suggestions of slaughterhouse and free-range tours. While those are good ideas, I don't have the resources to do that--if I did. I was thinking more along the lines of things that I could say in a meeting situation and opinions on whether it would even be worth it.

[grog]

i'm sorry chicoans; that's horrible news. :(
misovegan had a good suggestion about the tour - maybe you could work a tour of a slaughterhouse for them in there too. ;)
they wouldn't go for that anyway. they cleverly arranged tours of a local "human grass fed beef" place, that isn't even where they will get their dead animals from, but it sure looked good on paper and in the tours.

[Miso Vegan]

Oh brother.

quagga, I do think it's worth it to participate in a meeting.

[gur]

hee. actually, i was being facetious; never in a million years would i think that most people would willingly go to a slaughterhouse. see, i'm inarticulate. what i should have written was this: "and after the free-range tour, you could accidentally take them to a slaughterhouse tour" -wait, that wasn't any better, was it. oh, just nevermind, i'll shut up now. :p

[quagga]

quagga, I do think it's worth it to participate in a meeting.

You see, this is where I'm having trouble. I go and I say what?? Or do I just sit there wearing my vegan shirt and a look of disapproval on my face?

I think the meeting will cover the rest of the ballot questions -- which dealt with where in the store people would like to see meat items - in the deli? In the freezer case? As packaged products (meat soups, etc.)? as little sandwiches? There will likely be little input from the attendees on this b/c the survey responses will dictate what they carry. (Even though it was an "advisory" vote.)

I think if I go, I just go armed with facts on abuse in the so-called free-range industry and info on transport and slaughter and if asked, I tell. But you, see, the vote wasn't about humane animal products at all--it was about free-range, organic, grass-fed, natural, blah, blah, blah. If the discussion were about transitioning from factory-farmed animal products to more humane products, I would be much more willing to go, but since it's the other way around, I'm just reluctant.

[Miso Vegan]

you might just go and interject wherever you see fit. If for no other reason than to be a burr under their saddles?

At the very least, you can say that anything they bring is should be clear if it contains meat - ie, "natural" flavorings may not be good enough; "carmine" should be followed by "from insects".... And since most products don't get that specific, they could be ruled out?

[bluedawg]

Or do I just sit there wearing my vegan shirt and a look of disapproval on my face?
:laugh: you're adorable.

i think Miso has made some good points--i think you should go, and when you think you have something to add to the conversation, pipe up. it's hard to tell what kinds of reasoning they're using, but my bet is that whatever arguments they make, you can make an even better counter-argument. :)

[Dandelion]

The ballots have been tallied:

188 - NO on meat
427 - YES on meat

615 ballots cast out of approximately 1700-1800 members.

35% of members voted on this issue

There will be a Board of Directors Meeting on Monday, October 9 at KZFR radio, 341 Broadway at 5:30pm to discuss the ramifications and implementation of the advisory vote.
nonononononononononononononononononononononononono nonononono!

[walrus]

I got a chance to talk to Randy Larsen today while I was tabling and he was also very disappointed and not surprised. He and I both agreed that it really was just one big setup, and they (the BOD) already had their minds made up. Well, they've lost my business, and that's all I care about now.

[Dandelion]

I got a chance to talk to Randy Larsen today while I was tabling and he was also very disappointed and not surprised. He and I both agreed that it really was just one big setup, and they (the BOD) already had their minds made up. Well, they've lost my business, and that's all I care about now.
time to start your OWN coop! :D

[quagga]

time to start your OWN coop! :D

Mr Q and I were talking about how great it would be to do small a vegan shop in Chico, a la Food Fight (which I have never visited). I couldn't do produce, but non-perishable and other goodies, definitely.

[quagga]

I got a chance to talk to Randy Larsen today while I was tabling and he was also very disappointed and not surprised.

So, is Randy going to the CNF Board meeting?

[Miso Vegan]

Mr Q and I were talking about how great it would be to do small a vegan shop in Chico, a la Food Fight (which I have never visited). I couldn't do produce, but non-perishable and other goodies, definitely.
Oh, you should! Sidecar doesn't carry produce, and I don't think I saw any at FF but I might be wrong. Anyway, produce is available everywhere. A vegan shop should focus on the stuff people can't find easily, the unique items made by vegans, and pantry staples so they're more likely to do the bulk of their shopping there instead of mainstream stores. I think.

[walrus]

So, is Randy going to the CNF Board meeting?
I dunno, he didn't mention it. I really like him and I hope he does. He's good people.

[gladcow]

Yeah, Food Fight doesn't do produce either. They focus on vegan essentials and hard to find stuff.

[walrus]

oh man, it would be great to have a real veg store in the town again, wouldn't it?
:thinking:

[seitanicvegan]

Well, they've lost my business, and that's all I care about now.

Absolutely. :angry2: I had a gut feeling that this was going to happen, but I still hoped. CNF has lost my business also. I am so disappointed and disgusted that I want to say and wish evil things to happen to CNF. I'll go calm down with some tea, but I'll still be disappointed and disgusted.

[seitanicvegan]

Mr Q and I were talking about how great it would be to do small a vegan shop in Chico, a la Food Fight (which I have never visited). I couldn't do produce, but non-perishable and other goodies, definitely.

You have my business!

[mountainvegan]

I think the best thing to do is write a letter spelling out the cruelty inherent in all the “happy” labels (free-range, cage-free, organic), such as chickens being de-beaked, male chicks being thrown alive into wood chippers or garbage cans, chickens overcrowded in sheds, handled cruelly (beaten, kicked, stomped upon, hurled against the wall) in transportation and slaughter, and often scalded alive in slaughterhouses. Free-range cattle are often transported through weather extremes for long periods to the slaughterhouse, and at slaughter, they are often inadequately shot with the bolt-gun and go through the hide- and gut-removal process fully conscious.

See www.factoryfarming.com for more details. The fact is, as we know but they probably don’t, a vast majority of the cruelty in “factory farming” still exists with “happy meat.” There is no significant difference in cruelty between cages and cage-free; free-range versus feedlot (since all young beef cattle spend the first half of their lives on the range anyway), and organic versus non-organic. The industry obviously knows these facts, but they're happy to add happy labels to their cruel business.

If you can get a group together to present the letter at the board meeting, all the better. They should at least have a letter detailing the inherent cruelty attached to their meeting minutes.

If you can get an animal rights organization to protest during a busy time, that would be good, too.

[grog]

i suppose we could tell peta one of the few veg stores in the country is switching to meat, wonder if they could come yap at them.

[mountainvegan]

It might be worth asking them why the co-op didn’t serve meat in the first place. Has anyone looked at the legal documents (by-laws and any other rules and regulations)? If you could find a restriction in the governing documents, even if it’s not explicitly stated, you might be able to bring about a change despite the vote. I don’t know anything about co-ops, so I don’t know how promising the governing documents would be on this issue, but they only take an hour or so to read, at the most, so it’s worth reading them.

[quagga]

It might be worth asking them why the co-op didn’t serve meat in the first place. Has anyone looked at the legal documents (by-laws and any other rules and regulations)? If you could find a restriction in the governing documents, even if it’s not explicitly stated, you might be able to bring about a change despite the vote. I don’t know anything about co-ops, so I don’t know how promising the governing documents would be on this issue, but they only take an hour or so to read, at the most, so it’s worth reading them.

When the original co-op was established, its bylaws contained a clause that the store should be vegetarian. However, two or three years ago the co-op became an official co-op and joined some sort of co-op alliance and also became a corporation (or changed its charter). As a part of that change/transition, new boilerplate bylaws were adopted and the original ones completely scrapped, apparently, including the vegetarian clause. I have a copy, and I will look them over again, but I don' think I'll find anything.

In order for the store to go back to being vegetarian, the members would have to hold a vote on the matter and the issue would have to pass by 2/3.

The vote that was just held was an advisory vote called by the Board because of the great numbers of requests that staff receive for the store to carry meat.

[mountainvegan]

The vote that was just held was an advisory vote called on the Board because of the great numbers of requests that staff receive for the store to carry meat.

Sounds like there's no hope for changing it back. The only thing left to do is educate. :umm:

[quagga]

I'll add, too, that I had discussion with a Board member at the CNF Veggie-fest and from our conversation it became clear that she had virtually no idea about transport, slaughter, and husbandry issues involved with 'Happy meat'. It also was clear that she had no idea of the level of pre-planning that store staff and management had already gone through -- management and staff are ready to start selling flesh. They know where they're going to put it, what they have to take out to put it in, and they know they will be ready to put it in place by Thanksgiving, so everyone can buy their dead turkeys for the holiday. The whole timing of the vote, in fact, was to give staff enough time to be ready to sell flesh by the holidays.

But will any of this make a bit of difference to the Board? I think not--my belief is that the complaints above will be called water under the bridge. Therefore, is it even worth my time to fight this battle?

My discussions with the general manager of the store have made it clear that the mission of CNF is to provide organic/natural/healthy meat, not 'happy meat' per se.

For myself, I haven't decided that I will *never* shop at CNF again. For the near future, I don't want to step foot in the place. The thought has crossed my mind to call for a boycott of the store and write a letter to the editor to encourage others to join me. Thoughts? Comments? Am I off my rocker?

ETA: The board member had no idea, either, of the level of planning that staff and management had gone through to be ready for a Yes on Meat vote, so my guess is that the rest of the board has no idea, either.

Anyway, it's good to get this off my chest.

[herbi]

This whole thing is reminding me of the vote in Ithaca for GreenStar to start selling meat. :( There was a vote of the "member/owners", and it was extremely in favor of meat, despite campus AR groups having people sign up as coop members specifically so they could vote against it. They tried to "balance" it by specifying that the meat had to be organic and from farms within 40 miles of Ithaca, and those farms had to allow twice-yearly un-announced visits/inspections by GreenStar members, but it still sucked.

Here (http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:97u3lR9HkecJ:www.greenstarcoop.com/council/PolicyBook/11.1%2520gspb-pl.pol.pdf+ithaca+greenstar+meat+vote&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1) is a list of GreenStar's policies, with annotations (if you scroll down) detailing the nature and timing of their addendums & changes regarding meat. They started off entirely ovo/lacto veg, then after more than 20 years they decided to allow small amounts of certain kinds of poultry, fish, and meat-based petfoods in the early 90's, and then in 2003 they voted to allow other kinds of meat as well. Actually, by the time I left in spring 2004, they hadn't even found a cattle or pig farm that fit their criteria, but I'm sure that someone stepped right up to fill that niche. Sigh.

[grog]

well, frankly, I'm not sure we yet have the community support. plus I think a lot of hinterland members may not be fully aware. So i think we should hold off on any big guns, or protests, until next year, after they start selling meat. I think that may push some people back into our favor.

[quagga]

Thanks, Herbi.

This is a document that I can walk in with and use. I am surprised to see that the guidelines include viewing the slaughterhouse (subject to existing laws/regulation)(section R-11).

[mountainvegan]

Yeah, it might be best to give it a rest now and have the meat-Nazis let their guard down. During the spring or summer, perhaps do a major education campaign on the cruelty of meat with the co-op at the center of attention. Changing the co-op back to l/o vegetarian wouldn’t be the goal (with a 70/30 vote defeat and no legal recourse); education and awareness would be the goal (albeit an unquantifiable goal).

[quagga]

I can't post much right now, but Walrus and I attended this meeting on October 9. The local news station was there, though, and this is the report they filed on the 11 o'clock news. I watched the news and you can see the back of both our heads.

KHSL-TV
Oct 10, 2006

Chico Natural Foods Votes to Sell Meat for First Time in 30 Years

To sell meat or not to sell meat? Monday that was the question facing the board of Chico Natural Foods. They announced their decision to start selling meat. The decision came after some emotional arguments at Monday night's meeting.

Some long-time customers pleaded with the board not to sell meat at Chico Natural Foods. But store managers and the board agreed bringing in the beef is what the majority of customers want. The meat issue has been an emotional one. The final meeting about meat.

This advisory board voted unanimously Monday night to start bringing in the beef to Chico Natural Foods. But the decision came after a month of voting at the health food store. Rachel Oriana Schraeder, the store's general manager said "we received strong passionate input on both sides of the issue so until the votes were actually counted we had no idea, we were very surprised, I guess we expected it to be closer." Before this final decision store managers polled more than a thousand store members. Two-thirds voted in favor of having meat at the store mainly to make shopping more convenient.

Customer Sarah Kirkpatrick said "now I can make all of my decisions at one store, I don't have to go anywhere else. I have the assurance that the meat I'm eating is going to be good for me, not full of hormones."

Greg Tropea, a former board member, said "I believe that this decision dilutes the co-op's unique position in the community."

While customers may be for or against selling meat most say it could very well beef-up sales for Chico Natural Foods. No word on when the meat will appear on store shelves. Some customers are hoping to see meat at the store in time for Thanksgiving.

[Climbo]

beef-up sales

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/rotundrory/cookie2.gif

[walrus]

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/rotundrory/cookie2.gif
awesome.

[Climbo]

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/wit

[walrus]

wit
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=smart%20aleck

I was referencing your signature line, anyway.

[grog]

http://www.sylvaniafarm.com/aviaries/lovebirds.jpg

[Climbo]

saliva

[quagga]

The decision came after some emotional arguments at Monday night's meeting.

This part bothers me -- I certainly have no qualms about acknowledging that emotions play a valuable role in decisionmaking, but I think it's important to convey that the argument is at its heart an ethical one. Something else for me to work on -- if I just remember to ask people to think of their own pet dog or cat and then to think of that beloved pet in a slaughterhouse.

[grog]

This part bothers me -- I certainly have no qualms about acknowledging that emotions play a valuable role in decisionmaking, but I think it's important to convey that the argument is at its heart an ethical one. Something else for me to work on -- if I just remember to ask people to think of their own pet dog or cat and then to think of that beloved pet in a slaughterhouse.

It's all bothersome really. :umm:

[bluedawg]

I have the assurance that the meat I'm eating is going to be good for me

:blank:

[quagga]

I'm glad that I went to this "bothersome" meeting. I went with the intention of not really saying anything but just bearing witness, but the board asked for my opinion at several junctures and so I gave it. The most pro-meat board member did not ask me anything and was not responsive to my statements (as in not even making simple eye contact with me), but the rest seemed interested. TV news was there, much to my surprise, but no newspapers. There were three other anti-meat citizens in attendance -- Walrus, and two other people. Oddly, there were no pro-meat supporters there.

Did I change anything? No--the board still voted unanimously to accept the results of the advisory vote and to direct management and staff to present a plan for carrying meat in the store. Did I express my opinion of their unethical actions -- you betcha. I had browsed through the current Satya magazine before the meeting and was able to bring out a couple of points about "happy meat" and will follow up by sending the board the Satya piece about the different animal care certifications.

The worst part? Being grilled after the meeting by the store's general manager and hectored about not supporting the store enough in the past and challenged about whether I would support the store in the future. WTF?! I explained that I was undecided whether I even wanted to remain a member/shareholder of the store--that just as I would not want to own shares in Proctor and Gamble, I would not want to be an owner of a store that will profit from the sale of dead animals. She was pretty unrelenting in her interrogation of me <brrr>. For my part, I was pretty unrelenting in my criticism and disapproval with her about how badly run the store has been, how little marketing and advertising has been done, and most of all how totally unnecessary it was to bring the issue of meat to a vote when there is an ethical principle at stake as well as other serious management issues to deal with. The GM for some reason feels that the meat issue was the key issue that the store had to deal with, which leaves me totally baffled still.

I'm still not sure when/if I will give up my membership, as it does guarantee me a seat at the table and I do believe in the economics of co-ops. I may wait until they actually start carrying meat. The GM and one of the board members tried to cajole me into helping revive the newsletter on the perhaps valid grounds that there is no better population to try and make aware of animal issues than the folks who shop at the co-op. I dunno, seems kind of weak, doesn't it? I was also asked to help tally the survey portion of the ballots--ostensibly so I could learn about what the membership thinks about the issue. Again, WTF? I declined the offer.

More than you wanted to know, I'm sure.

[gladcow]

quagga, good for you! not more than I wanted to know, I find it very interested and am very impressed with your fortitude and devotion.

[bluedawg]

quagga, good for you! not more than I wanted to know, I find it very interested and am very impressed with your fortitude and devotion.
:yes: :yes: :yes:

thanks for these updates!

[mountainvegan]

Way to go, quagga! :yes: :thumbsup:

It sounds like they (especially the store manager) have a lot of nerve and arrogance in their communication with and requests of you. I might hang around a little longer until this issue is not being discussed and there’s flesh being sold, just in case you can offer more input, then perhaps send a letter (including a copy to the newspaper) that you’re leaving due to the decision to sell meat. That, of course, is very much a personal decision, and if you think it’s worth it to continue long term participation, I can very much see both sides of the issue.

Good job. :)

[Miso Vegan]

Good for you! I think your points about the poor management (and how it should have been higher priority than selling meat) are really important. That'd be in my "resignation" letter, if I were to write one.

[walrus]

I was there during the whole ordeal, too. I didn't speak up at this meeting because (a) it seemed like a waste of time and energy to do so considering it wasn't a "real" board meeting and (b) I didn't want to get pegged like what happened to quagga. I felt really bad for quagga. They pretty much ganged up on her, almost in attack mode. I couldn't say anything!! I kept wanting to speak up but couldn't figure out what I wanted to say. I'm not really good at being confrontational (probably not the best word to use, but that's all I can come up with) and end up becoming exasperated really easily. quagga stood her ground though and I was quite proud of her.

Those stupid CNF people don't know what they are getting themselves into. I'd be surprised if they survive the next couple of years.

One of the points that was raised at the meeting was the fact that the ballot went out with this question:

Should CNF carry meat? Yes or No
What kind of meat should CNF carry? Dead cattle, dead pigs, dead chickens, etc. etc.?

Of course, they didn't word it like that, but that was the jist of it. Along with the ballot came a letter that said something to effect of "CNF will sink if we don't start carrying meat." I think it kind of forced people to vote for meat because heaven knows they don't want their co-op to go under. I would rather they not go under, either, but after the meeting the other night I could care less about them now.

As quagga said, the co-op will go under simply because of management issues and outreach issues. That's all it boils down to. The GM kept saying to quagga, over and over again, that she has tried to get people to do the newsletter and this and that, blah blah blah.

Either way, once they start carrying meat, which they inevitably will, I will be pulling out my membership. I don't have any reason to shop there anymore anyway, given the bad service, bad selection, high prices, and now this. Bah humbug.

[grog]

actually they have the best and cheapest selection of organic bulk goods in town.

but that's about it.

[Dandelion]

actually they have the best and cheapest selection of organic bulk goods in town.

but that's about it.
is this the same coop (http://www.veganrepresent.com/images/gdc04/pictures/dscn4462.html)?

[walrus]

is this the same coop (http://www.veganrepresent.com/images/gdc04/pictures/dscn4462.html)?
That looks like them, yes. Now just add a freezer full of dead animals and you're all set.

[Dandelion]

seemed like a pretty cool coop, until now of course. :skull:

[bird]

Claps for quagga! You're such a star, babe!

[walrus]

seemed like a pretty cool coop, until now of course. :skull:
Yeah, pretty lame omz!

[gur]

quagga, i think you rock. seriously. :yes: good for you for holding your ground.

[veganshawn]

If you can get away with it, put A/R flyers in the area where meat is being sold, stick meat is murder stickers on the packages etc...
And has anyone thought of starting another co-op? I know it is a lot of time and effort, but it would kick ass if you could and run them out of business.

[quagga]

Way to go, quagga! :yes: :thumbsup:

It sounds like they (especially the store manager) have a lot of nerve and arrogance in their communication with and requests of you. I might hang around a little longer until this issue is not being discussed and there’s flesh being sold, just in case you can offer more input, then perhaps send a letter (including a copy to the newspaper) that you’re leaving due to the decision to sell meat. That, of course, is very much a personal decision, and if you think it’s worth it to continue long term participation, I can very much see both sides of the issue.

Good job. :)

Thanks, MV. And thanks to everyone else for their good words. You all are too kind. And Walrus has been very good about reassuring me that I didn't look like a total ass while I was speaking my mind. I am glad that I didn't wind up on television, though.

Nerve and arrogance sum up things very well. My job as an attendee at the meeting was simply to identify problems with the current proposal and to voice my ethical disapproval of it. I don't think my job as an attendee was to arrive at solutions (except that the implicit solution is to simply not carry meat and keep the status quo)--if the co-op is not able to either generate enough sales to keep the doors open or to inspire enough volunteers to help with all the many tasks that need to be done, that is not my responsibility. The manager disagrees with this position b/c she feels that shareholders in a co-op are responsible.

It may very well be that the manager's very personality, even though she tries to be conscientious, drives people away. Did I mention that this manager labels herself as a lacto-ovo-pesca-vegetarian? I think she has a deep internal conflict with what she is doing and in one of our heated conversations in the past (over the wording of that damn ballot) I told her to be careful with her spirit as she was actively promoting something that was contrary to her personal beliefs. She and the board hold fast to the idea that it was her job only to assure a well-informed, fair, and free vote. My active participation in the whole thing from the beginning actually helps foster that impression, but really, people just voted on how they felt about eating animals, or they were influenced, as Walrus posted, by the fear that if the co-op didn't carry meat it would go under.

MV, I like the idea of a resignation letter being copied to the local papers very much. Still not sure how I'll go on that one, but if I resign from the co-op the whole town might as well know about it.

[grog]

I'm temped to all resign en masse, but I'm also tempted to keep a foot in the door. You can't win if you take your ball and go home.

ETA: Wow, did I just use three cliches?

[seitanicvegan]

Let's send a group resignation/boycott letter. I did my first S&S-only shopping trip the other day. It won't be the last.

[seitanicvegan]

I'm temped to all resign en masse, but I'm also tempted to keep a foot in the door. You can't win if you take your ball and go home.

ETA: Wow, did I just use three cliches?

LOL! You did, and it also looks like you were inside my brain. Stop that! There are enough people in there already. :rolleyes:

[quagga]

I think Chico Natural Foods should be renamed Chico Unnatural Foods.

[walrus]

I think Chico Natural Foods should be renamed Chico Unnatural Foods.
Heh, the other day I thought it would be neat to spray paint the word "Un" in front of the "Natural Foods" on the mural. :rolleyes:

[quagga]

Our own walrus is famous! Good going for giving the CNR a piece of your mind. The roar of disapproval can change hearts and minds -- quiet acceptance perpetuates it. In this case, we have clearly lost the battle -- the co-op will carry meat, but the larger fight still goes on...

Chico News and Review (http://www.newsreview.com/chico/Content?oid=oid%3A230620)
Letters to the Editor

‘Humane slaughter'?
Re: "The meat of the matter" (http://www.newsreview.com/chico/Content?oid=227444) (Editorial, CN&R, Oct. 12):

I'd like to respond to the editorial regarding the meat issue at Chico Natural Foods. Most importantly, I'd like to bring up the issue of "humane slaughter." The fact is there is no such thing. Animals coming from factory farms or small family farms are all shipped and slaughtered the exact same way. They don't sort out the lucky "free-range" animals and send them to a separate butcher who pats the animals on the head and puts them to sleep before they are slaughtered. Any animal headed for slaughter will die a slow and painful death, no matter their upbringing.

Another point I'd like to bring up is the idea that CNF wants to purchase locally raised meat. Think again. At last discussion it was mentioned that CNF would purchase its meat from Niman Ranch, which is based out of Oakland. CNF had us all fooled by taking us to a local ranch located in Red Bluff. On top of that, the "free-range" turkeys that are sold in the store every November for Thanksgiving are purchased from Diestel Turkey Ranch, which is located in Sonoma.

As a vegan, I appreciated what CNF had to offer: a safe haven for me to do my shopping without having to see or smell dead animals. By including meat in their store year round they have taken that special place away. I am saddened and sickened by the decision and hope that someday the board will actually put some real effort into making the store a wonderful place to shop.
Walrus
Chico

[mamaquilla]

Way to go Walrus, you rock !!!

[Miso Vegan]

very nice job, Walrus!

[gur]

nice job, walrus! :thumbsup:

[walrus]

Our own walrus is famous!
:D :cartwheel:

[bluedawg]

awesome letter, walrus! :thumbsup:

[bird]

great job, walrus! succinct and you made your points well. :thumbsup:

[walrus]

OH, now I know what they took out when they edited it. They took out the part about Diestel being investigated and finding less than humane treatment of the birds. Eh, oh well, they printed it.

[quagga]

Hi all...I need to vent and document at the same time, so lucky VRF, you get the blow by blow. The CNF Board had its monthly meeting this evening, with an agenda to approve the general manager's plan to implement the meat policy. I decided to attend because i wanted to see the shape of the implementation, and to see the board's response, if any, to my letter with information from Satya and my request that CNF respond to the local paper's contention that the co-op would carry humane, humanely slaughtered animal flesh. It is the last CNF board meeting that I will attend because my energy is better spent on vegan outreach to even partially open minds. Leafletting, baby!

First, I will point out that the board has serious commitment issues, as it was unable to muster a quorum (that is, four members) and so was unable to ratify any decisions. One board member is essentially AWOL, another board member can no longer serve on the board because b/c the bylaws state that only one board member can be an employee (and b/c the store is short-staffed, they need two board members to work). Second, there were other vegchico members who attempted to attend the meeting but could not b/c there was insufficient notice of the meeting location. These two items alone signify the serious management and public participation issues faced by CNF and why it's the sluggish, suffering store that it is. The board is so weak that it is essentially unable to provide guidance to management.

A couple of things that I learned:

the source for the turkeys that CNF will order is Shelton's -- the GM read off some vacuous facts about their humane care and slaughter practices
they will start carrying meat in November--holiday-related meat items, chicken broth, canned tuna, locally raised grass-fed beef (from the Big Bluff Ranch that I and others toured earlier)
they are unable to sell deli slices b/c they cannot find a distibutor, but this is a just a matter of time
the meat will be carried in the bread section at the back of the store (so they can market artisanal bread and artisanal meat, dontcha know)
the kitchen staff refuses to make meat sandwiches at this point, even though they get requests for turkey sandwiches "all the time"

One staff member who was unable to attend the meeting sent a letter to the board asking that management and the board voluntarily refrain from selling fresh and deli sandwiches for a year. One board member said that she agreed with this staff member's wishes. The GM refused to agree b/c she did not want to set a precedent of restraint. Her plan is to phase things in slowly, but she did not want her management decisions constrained in any way.

The GM said that she intended to provide information to members about the limited credibiiity of humane certifications and other practices. How she intends to do this except in a very passive way is not clear, since the co-op does not have a viable newsletter, website, etc.

I mostly sat quiet, arms crossed, about two feet away from the table. I did my shouting last time. When they were reviewing the minutes from the last meeting, I added several corrections about what had actually happened (for instance, they forgot to include the letter from the environmentalist about the biased nature of the meat vote). No one volunteered to share the minutes or the agenda with me until I asked for a copy--which I thought was rude, since there were clearly extra copies with all the missing board members. Finally, the board president asked if there was anything I wanted to add.

The main point that I wanted to make was that I wished that the Board would demand of management that there be no promotion of their meat as humane in any way, either in the way the animals are raised or in the way that they are slaughtered. I felt that to do so would be a sham for the animals, which is all I care about. I said that it seemed clear that the GM wanted to assert that the products carried by CNF were as humane as could be, based on her research and support of the Shelton's claims. To her credit, the president said that she agreed with me, and that she did not want CNF to be seen as promoting that their animal products were humane. I thanked her, but did not ask for a motion or any other guidance to be provided to management (without a quorum, that was impossible anyway). I mean, the writing is on the wall, the board is weak-willed and management is strong-willed--it was cognitive dissonance embodied.

After saying my piece, I noticed that the GM's voice was shaking as she replied about humane meat and the educational factor of making shoppers aware of alternatives to factory farmed meat, either out of her personal discomfort as a vegetarian promoting meat or out of anger with me for holding fast to an ethical position.

OK, I'm done. I feel all empty inside, I ate two good meals today, but don't feel like I was able to digest either one b/c of how I felt raw inside.

Cognitive dissonance:
The board member who was seemingly trying to draw a parallel between the humane euthanasia of squirrel in her yard that had been injured by a cat (she dispatched it and buried it as an act of compassion, just recently), and, I guess, the slaughter of young animals for meat. I was dumbfounded and could not respond. FWIW, I don't think her fellow board members thought she was making any sense either, since she never actually came out and made the comparison straight up. This same board member also talked about pulling a carrot out of the ground as taking a life.

The GM who has shepherded the meat issue saying, "The co-op is in no way trying to dissuade people from following a vegetarian diet as the healthiest way to eat."

ETA: Now I know that is more than you wanted to know, I'm sure. ;)

[seitanicvegan]

quagga, I feel like I need to apologize, but I'm not sure what for. Everything that we have pushed for under your leadership has come to very little, if anything. Management and/or the Board at CNF is, obviously, a joke. I wish I could have been there with you. I'm not sure what could have been said, but at least moral support.

[quagga]

The other highlight of my evening was that I saw the wacko who compared me to Hitler! I think he works for the radio station--maybe as a volunteer? a DJ? He was coming out of the offices of the radio station where the board meeting was held.

I don't think he recognized me. I guess I didn't make too much of an impression, eh?

Obviously, seitanic, there's no need for you to apologize--not sure for what or to whom. It's just the way things shook out, and it is their failure, not ours as I used all my powers of persuasion. And the animals will pay, as they always do.

I'll be glad to have this incident behind me--on to the next opportunity to enlighten.

[bird]

Thanks for sharing, quagga. It's very sad that the situation is like this, but I really do admire all of you for the sustained efforts you've made throughout this whole process.

Is there a consensus yet among you all as to whether you'll be resigning?

[quagga]

Is there a consensus yet among you all as to whether you'll be resigning?

I'm not planning on resigning any time soon. But I'm not shopping at the co-op, either.

[bluedawg]

{{quagga}} i'm so sorry. {{chico peeps!}}

thanks for always keeping us posted--i love reading your updates, bad news or not. ;)

[mountainvegan]

Good job, quagga. It's very frustrating, but your resistance made a difference. Had you not provided resistance, it would have been considered an "uncontested" decision, providing much more "justification" for it.

[bird]

MV always has the best observations about things. :heart: I wish I were so smart.

[mountainvegan]

MV always has the best observations about things. :heart: I wish I were so smart.
:blush: Thank you, bird. :heart:

[grog]

Thanks for going Quagga.

[quagga]

Thanks everyone.

It seems that resistance is futile, yet to fail to resist and speak out (reprazent!) is to send the message of acceptance. That is why I rarely miss an opportunity to say that I am vegan (when it's appropriate, of course).

And so, I kind of hate the thought of the directors breathing a sigh of relief when I don't appear at the next board meeting. Sure, it's easier on me, but it also makes it infinitely easier on them.

However, all this is taking a toll on me personally, so I have to think about that, too.

[stegan]

quagga, keep up the good work- the only way to rouse the rabble is to be loud and proud at the meetings. Make your NO votes heard. There's nothing more discouraging to me than to see someone get mad at a board that they're on and then walk away without making their case.

[bird]

Yeah but the board seems like a bunch of assclowns. What quagga should do is get on the management. ;)

Feel free to ignore me! :D

[walrus]

Oh, quagga, I'm so sorry I couldn't be there. I had something else going on last night, but I kept thinking about you and how it was going. Sounds like another big disappointment. I would like to attend more of the meetings because I don't want yours to be the only voice. I promise to speak up more, too. :D

I don't want you dealing with this all on your own, so if you'll keep me in the loop for future meetings I will gladly show up if my schedule permits. I'd like to bring up, again and again, that FS (the place RachelOriana brings up all the time) not only rescues factory farmed animals, but animals from humane/free-range/organic farms. I think reminding her that she met some of these animals would strike a nerve with her. At least I'd like to think so.

My days of shopping at CNF have come to an end.

[Dandelion]

dear quagga,
you pwn. thanks for representin'!
:heart:,
dandelion

[quagga]

dear quagga,
you pwn. thanks for representin'!
:heart:,
dandelion

Why, that's the nicest thing anyone's ever said to me! :heart: right back at you, too!,
quagga

[quagga]

quagga, keep up the good work- the only way to rouse the rabble is to be loud and proud at the meetings. Make your NO votes heard. There's nothing more discouraging to me than to see someone get mad at a board that they're on and then walk away without making their case.

I do see value in keeping on the board's case - for instance, I am seeking some investigative info on their poultry supplier (Shelton's). I would love to attend the next meeting and point out that their main source of turkey is not as humane as their website and promotional literature would have consumers believe. I imagine the board at this point only has about 1-1/2 layers of paint on them.

[Emiloid]

First of all, great letter, walrus!

Second, quagga, you're an amazing person! You've put so much time and energy into this issue... I'm basically in awe. I really wish I could have made it to the meeting to offer my support. :umm:

[mamaquilla]

im sorry the meeting was so lousy and that its taking a toll on you! it seems the leafletting came just at the right time, something for you to feel positive about
hugs

[quagga]

I believe the universe rewards persistence, patience, and civility. Today Walrus and I attended another CNF board of directors meeting. My aim was to shape the meat policy implementation, since the board was not able to convene a quorum at its last meeting and I was unable to get the board to commit to a position.

So...I crafted up a letter to the board requesting that "management refrain from promotion or outreach that labels or otherwise describes its meat products as 'humane' or that uses any other term that implies the same....Farmers and ranchers themselves agree that there is no such thing as humane slaughter, as no healthy animal wants to die. However, it is clear that the store will receive meat products that purport to be 'humanely raised' or that will carry some similar labeling, because this kind of labeling is a powerful marketing tool. Therefore, I specifically request that the Board ask management to create and post signage that states the following or its equivalent:"

Notice to CustomersChico Natural Foods cannot verify the humane production or slaughter practices claimed by the producers of the animal products sold here. Concerned customers are encouraged to contact Farm Sanctuary or VegChico.com for more information.

And guess what, my friends? The board supported it! The general manager supported it! They nodded their heads and they thought that it was in keeping with the mission of the store. Someone made a motion to ask the general manager to post the signage as noted, someone else seconded and they all voted aye! And they thanked me for my time and for producing such an acceptable notice. :o I thanked them for doing the right thing.

The only knot in the yarn was one board member who stated that it was humane to kill animals, depending on the civilization. She had a major personal disagreement with the concept of compassion toward animals. However, since she was not an obstacle to what I was asking for--she seconded the motion--I did not take issue with her. Actually, I think she only made herself look silly as she tried to hold to the right of humans to dominate over the non-human.

A very good night. It pays not to burn your bridges...

My thanks to Walrus for accompanying me and being my witness to such an amazing thing. I'm still angry as heck that CNF is carrying meat, but I'm glad that they're not trying to hide behind happy meat.

[gladcow]

WAY TO GO!!!!

Quagga and walrus are an example for us all! Awesome.

Quagga, make sure to email the Vegan Freaks and let them know.

[bird]

WOOT!!!!!!!! Hooray, congratulations, and cheers!!!

[Miso Vegan]

That is TOTALLY AWESOME!!!!

[bluedawg]

very nicely done, you two!!

[Dandelion]

WOW!! NO F-IN WAY!
Quagga you rule so hard, and of course wally on the backup tip. :smitten:
That might be even better than not carrying meat!

[grog]

That might be even better than not carrying meat!

yah, I'm tired and still processing this...

[walrus]

My thanks to Walrus for accompanying me and being my witness to such an amazing thing. I'm still angry as heck that CNF is carrying meat, but I'm glad that they're not trying to hide behind happy meat.
Hey everyone, I didn't do ANYTHING but sit there and nod my head and give quagga glances at certain things being said. quagga deserves all the reward for this huge development. She has put a lot of work into it and CNF should be kissing her feet!

quagga, excellent work! :banana:

[Dandelion]

yah, I'm tired and still processing this...
How that sign might get people thinking on the issue from a different direction and maybe visiting FS or the fine VegChico. Outreach! am i reaching here? :D

[gladcow]

How that sign might get people thinking on the issue from a different direction and maybe visiting FS or the fine VegChico. Outreach! am i reaching here? :D
Reaching OUT! Yeah! I tOtally agree :yes:

[Dandelion]

Reaching OUT! Yeah! I tOtally agree :yes:
nyuk nyuk. :kiss:

[nauthiz]

Y'all totally win. :yes:

[grog]

well.....

i feel like we're being used for cover for them to feel good about themselves, like they threw us a bone.

but, clearly the outreach there is an awesome thing, think how many people it will make think about it!

this minds me to get busy updating the website which I really need to convert to a content managment system.

maybe xmas, i just sit home and sing songs to myself usually anyway.

oh, santa wrapped his sleigh around a flagpole
and watched the grass grow...
up to his...elbow...

man, i'm tired :drool:

[bird]

Reaching OUT!We need a dance, like the Village People.

See the banana reaching OOUUT??

:banana:

[walrus]

The only knot in the yarn was one board member who stated that it was humane to kill animals, depending on the civilization. She had a major personal disagreement with the concept of compassion toward animals. However, since she was not an obstacle to what I was asking for--she seconded the motion--I did not take issue with her. Actually, I think she only made herself look silly as she tried to hold to the right of humans to dominate over the non-human.
Aw, man ... everything she said infuriated me. In my head I kept having all these rebuttals pop up, but I knew I had to be a respectful vegan and let her say her crap. I could tell that she regretted opening her big mouth though, and like you said earlier quagga, the board members were none too pleased with her response, either. What a load of crap!

[quagga]

How that sign might get people thinking on the issue from a different direction and maybe visiting FS or the fine VegChico. Outreach! am i reaching here? :D

I think you may be right, dandy. I think, too, that once the signs go up...some customers might complain and mgmt might want the signs to come down...

The idea for the signage came from an East Bay Animal Advocates campaign against Foster Farms (http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2006/09/20/18312855.php) where EBAA got a regular grocery to carry a caveat emptor notice about cruel treatment of chickens at Foster Farms.

I figured Foster Farms is to Berkeley Bowl as "humane meat" is to CNF...

[quagga]

i feel like we're being used for cover for them to feel good about themselves, like they threw us a bone.

They did totally throw us a bone and it does make them feel better about themselves...and yet, I daresay that no other co-op carries signage like this about the meat it carries. In that sense I think it is precedent-setting.

Has anyone else heard of signage like this?

I think that it could have gone totally the other way. Mr Q still can't believe that they did it--I mean they actually committed to carrying signage against their own products.

[grog]

yeah, like i said, i'm processing this into a highly nuanced opinion of some sort ;)

[mamaquilla]

Quagga and Walrus this is so fantastic, perseverance...hell yeah...seems to me that it will MOST definetly get people thinking

hugs to you both :)

[Dandelion]

They did totally throw us a bone and it does make them feel better about themselves...
they did and...so. :)
I'm so proud that you didn't give up and flame out. I'm very inspired.

[Dandelion]

Aw, man ... everything she said infuriated me. In my head I kept having all these rebuttals pop up, but I knew I had to be a respectful vegan and let her say her crap. I could tell that she regretted opening her big mouth though, and like you said earlier quagga, the board members were none too pleased with her response, either. What a load of crap!
sometimes nothing you can say can win your cause more than just giving them enough rope to hang themselves. :cool:

[walrus]

Has anyone else heard of signage like this?
At Rainbow Grocery in S.F. ( :heart: ) they have signage up around their egg case, which breaks down the different types of eggs you can buy, and how the hens are treated, fed, etc. It was really quite refreshing. It makes our co-op look like a joke.

[walrus]

sometimes nothing you can say can win your cause more than just giving them enough rope to hang themselves. :cool:
:smitten:

[Miso Vegan]

I daresay that no other co-op carries signage like this about the meat it carries. In that sense I think it is precedent-setting.

Has anyone else heard of signage like this?

No - and nearly every co-op in Western Washington is one of my accounts.

[grog]

so, if/when this actually happens, we can get them to identify the egg conditions and terms on a sign next :)

[quagga]

so, if/when this actually happens, we can get them to identify the egg conditions and terms on a sign next :)

That is something that I will work with the co-op on.

Thanks for the update Miso.

[bird]

they did and...so. :)
I'm so proud that you didn't give up and flame out. I'm very inspired.Ditto. You inspire us all, quagga!

[hazelfaern]

Ditto. You inspire us all, quagga!

I'll third that :) Rock on, Quagga!

[mountainvegan]

WTG, quagga!

:D

[quagga]

Make your NO votes heard. There's nothing more discouraging to me than to see someone get mad at a board that they're on and then walk away without making their case.

I just finished re-reading this thread to see where I started from and where I wound up. And as I read it, I feel that stegan's post was pivotal for making me hang in there mentally. Thank you, stegan!

All the other posts of encouragement and sympathy were valuable, of course (I guess I am a bit of an attention whore, I suppose), and I thank you all, but I wanted to especially acknowledge stegan's nudging on how to work with boards. I think I was more effective as a guest than I would have been as a board member in this case.

I still have to follow up with the general manager to find out about timing issues of when the notice can get posted; I'm being a little lead-footed about it.

And I realized that I never did get a copy of the meat forum debate video. I never even heard back from the guy!

[stegan]

Awwww :blush: I'm just glad you hung in there when it would have been easy to walk away. Fantastic job! :banana:

[dropscone]

Yes indeed. Good show :)

[quagga]

An update...

I spoke with the GM today...she has had two meetings with her department managers about the signage I described and all are supportive of it. They will review the text that I submitted in my letter and decide if they want to change anything, they hope to finalize it by January 2007 at the next Board meeting and will be in touch with me.

I can't believe that this is still going forward without a hitch...

Oh yeah, that one board member who irked me? She's moving out of the area, so she won't be on the Board anymore. To borrow a line from the mother of all reality tv shows - Outwit. Outplay. Outlast.

A good day!

[mamaquilla]

Excellent news !

[hazelfaern]

Rock it, quagga!! :sunny:

[bluedawg]

quagga, you rule. nice work!!

[Miso Vegan]

quagga, you are a shining example! :sunny:

[Dandelion]

awesome quagga! you ran her outta town?! man, i'm glad yer on our side. ;)

[stegan]

Go quagga! Forgive the carnivorous metaphor, but way to keep your teeth dug in! :)

[Emiloid]

Oh yeah, that one board member who irked me? She's moving out of the area, so she won't be on the Board anymore. To borrow a line from the mother of all reality tv shows - Outwit. Outplay. Outlast.

A good day!

Good news, quagga! Also, I have to ask, is the irky one the woman with blond hair and a name that starts with a "K"? :p /gossip

[luckys420]

so whats the word? IS there meat now? When I move back to Chico will I have to smell the rotting flesh when I go to CNF? What a disappointment to hear about this.

[quagga]

The co-op members voted to carry meat, (http://www.veganrepresent.com/forums/showpost.php?p=158025&postcount=77)so the store will carry meat, luckys420. At this point it is just a matter of implementation.

As for exact timing, if you want to buy tuna, chicken broth, or some other non-frozen animal product, that is available right now. They are currently preparing the location where the freezer case will go, with likely completion one or two months from now, and the freezer case will hold frozen animal products.

If you want a vegetarian grocery store/co-op, you will have to move back to either San Francisco (Rainbox Grocery) or San Diego (another co-op there). I don't think there are any others.

[luckys420]

thanks for the quick reply. thats too bad that only 35% of members voted......

[quagga]

thanks for the quick reply. thats too bad that only 35% of members voted......

For CNF, 35% is actually a good response. Even fewer vote annually vote for the Board of Directors. The store has practically zero outreach.

[quagga]

For those following the continuing saga of "CNF May Carry Meat!!" Here's the latest, and probably last update...

Submission 1 - board approved
Notice to Customers
Chico Natural Foods cannot verify the humane production or slaughter practices claimed by the producers of the animal products sold here. Concerned customers are encouraged to contact Farm Sanctuary or VegChico.com for more information.

Submission 2 - manager's rewrite
CNF suggests that consumers look deeper to understand the significance of claims such as "cage-free" or humanely-raised." Regarding these topics, we recommend the following resources
Grace Factory Farm Project
Humane Farm Animal Care
American Humane
The Farm Sanctuary

Final - voted and approved by board
In the interest of educating our shoppers about sustainable food systems, CNF encourages you to learn about and research important issues. Suggested resources related to animal product claims such as cage-free, humanely raised, natural, organic, or grass-fed are:
The Farm Sanctuary
VegChico
Gracy Factory Farm Project
Animal Welfare Institute
Humane Farm Animal Care
American Humane
The Omnivore's Dilemma: A Natural History of Four Meals by Michael Pollan

OK, so what happened? The managers took a rather blunt dislike to the original, straightforward announcement that I proposed. Apparently they did not want to remind their shoppers to think about the animal they were about to eat--certainly not think about slaughter.

So, the next round at the next meeting was submission 2, which I felt didn't say anything, and also didn't include VegChico on there. The Board agreed that the language could be improved and asked the manager to go back and re-write it.

So, the manager submitted draft three at last night's meeting (February 26). I am at my worst in group, public edit mode, so was not as nimble or as strong-minded as I have been at previous meetings. I felt like my best shot was the first sign, the one that the board had approved. I was alone again at this meeting, and it becomes a bit difficult to always be the lone voice. The manager dug in her heels about removing any of the 'happy meat' humane farming urls on the list. She was able to convince her staff to put vegchico.com back on the list resources. She said, and I do believe, that it was a huge battle on her part to get her staff to put up signage for a staunchly veg*n group on the case where meat is sold. It's so risky to make a customer think about the product they are purchasing. Really, it is.

Am I happy about it? Not particularly. Is it better than nothing? It sure is, IMHO. I got the placement I wanted (right on the damn freezer case) and they put vegchico as a reference.

The space for the meat freezer has been cleared, the freezer is on order, and frozen hunks of animals will be sold by the next time the Board meets, at the end of next month. Hopefully they won't sell well.

Other news: CNF actually turned a profit last year -- $15-$20K net income -- WITHOUT selling meat. It's amazing what a little publicity about a controversial issue can do. The least profitiable department that is the produce department (heh! the one department that vegetarians depend on!) because of staffing issues. The hopes are that they will find the right person for the produce department and it will become profitable again.

Other interesting factoids: CNF makes practically no profit on bread or beer. The markup on these products is very low. Most of the bread comes in FROZEN! (All that Rudi's bread...now that I make my own bread, I hardly give a hoot about store-bought bread.)

Quite a few members have resigned their membership -- they still shop at the co-op, but they are no longer members. While I don't know the numbers on this trend, it is something that management has noted. What GOOD this action does, I don't know. It won't change back the meat policy, but there is a great deal of comfort to make a statement and to know that you are not a part-owner of a store that turns a profit selling animal parts. I think it would be meaningful for shoppers, members or not, to send a note of acknowledgment and perhaps even thanks for the co-op to put up that signage.

Comments?? Bring 'em on. You must have some, if you've read THIS far. ;)

[Miso Vegan]

quagga, I can only say again how impressed and proud I am with your efforts and abilitiy to follow this through and make a difference. Thank you.

[mamaquilla]

Yay Quagga!!!! You got the sinage in, you rock, thank goodness for your perseverance.

[bluedawg]

+1

quagga, you have been really fantastic. kudos to you for sticking to it! and yay for VegChico being featured front and center!!

[Dandelion]

Once again, good freakin job quagga! Does CNF have some sorta feedback system?

[grog]

I find it ironic that the same managers, who are either new to the store, or have been around years and helped run the store into the ground, are the ones dictating decisions. Suddenly, on this matter of importantance, community guidance, and moral compass, the General Manager and the BOD are somehow no longer in charge or responsible? The foxes have taken over the free range henhouse, where they sit and dream their dream of Michael Pollan's hypocritical fantasy of rolling green hills, happy cows, and respectful slaughter.

[quagga]

I find it ironic that the same managers, who are either new to the store, or have been around years and helped run the store into the ground, are the ones dictating decisions. Suddenly, on this matter of importantance, community guidance, and moral compass, the General Manager and the BOD are somehow no longer in charge or responsible? The foxes have taken over the free range henhouse, where they sit and dream their dream of Michael Pollan's hypocritical fantasy of rolling green hills, happy cows, and respectful slaughter.

You shoulda been there to voice your irony. :blank:

ETA: You would have been much more articulate than I was, that's for sure! I was thrown for a loop about the addition of the Pollan book and didn't respond to it as well as I could have. The board all seemed to have a really high regard for it. At the last board meeting (for submission 2), I did raise the conundrum that there is really nothing sustainable about free-range beef -- that to provide enough meat to satisfy even a reduced national appetite, we'd have to devote many more acres of grassland to feeding cattle than we currently do -- and what is sustainable about that? It seems to have made no impact.

[stegan]

way to stick with it, quagga! :sunny: One voice doesn't seem like a lot, but it can make a difference sometimes. :)

[grog]

You shoulda been there to voice your irony. :blank:

ETA: You would have been much more articulate than I was, that's for sure! I was thrown for a loop about the addition of the Pollan book and didn't respond to it as well as I could have. The board all seemed to have a really high regard for it. At the last board meeting (for submission 2), I did raise the conundrum that there is really nothing sustainable about free-range beef -- that to provide enough meat to satisfy even a reduced national appetite, we'd have to devote many more acres of grassland to feeding cattle than we currently do -- and what is sustainable about that? It seems to have made no impact.

Their decision was made long ago, whether or not they fully admitted it.

Quagga, you know if you need me, all you have to do is shine the (G) signal into the sky. :)

[Dandelion]

You shoulda been there to voice your irony. :blank:

ETA: You would have been much more articulate than I was, that's for sure! I was thrown for a loop about the addition of the Pollan book and didn't respond to it as well as I could have.
yup, that Pollan book is getting around and making alotta people feel good about eating their meat. :umm:

[walrus]

I'm sorry I couldn't make it. Thanks for being there and sticking up for all of us. I wonder if more of us would remember to come if you could send out a reminder or something to the group, or posted a reminder about the meetings here?

[Emiloid]

Wow, thanks for all your hard work, quagga! I also wish I could have made it. I didn't even know about it, but I guess I could be more careful about noting when the CNF meetings are. :umm:

Anyway, I'm glad there will be a sign. I'm not looking forward to dead flesh in the store, but I guess there's not a whole lot anyone can do about it at this point.

[quagga]

Yeah, I didn't have time to send out an email to announce the board meeting. Maybe it's not fair to gripe even a little bit about being alone at the meeting.

ETA: Especially since some folks don't even shop in the store anymore!

[mamaquilla]

Gripe away Quagga, not your job to keep everyone informed ;)
HUGS!

[quagga]

A bit of an update--
The general manager of Chico Natural Foods has resigned effective September 25, 2007. A search for a replacement has now begun.

[bluedawg]

whoa! someone from VegChico should apply!

[Miso Vegan]

Hey, good news!

[quagga]

whoa! someone from VegChico should apply!

Well, I think someone from VRF who has retail experience should apply...hmmm. Maybe Miso Vegan?? Or flower, with her produce department banana-tester expertise and now management skills? You'd have the job in a cinch.

[Miso Vegan]

Heh, I just got a management job, and don't really want to move to Chico ... but thanks for thinking of me!

yes, let's all nominate flower. :D

[walrus]

i just wrote them a letter. i am so fed up with that store.

Chico Natural Foods
818 Main St.
Chico, California 95928

Attn: Store Manager or BOD

To Whom It May Concern:

Yesterday, January 27, 2008, at around 8pm, I entered your store for the last time. Since the inception of the meat freezer, I decided not to support your store. Before the inception of the meat freezer, I had given thought to discontinue supporting your store because of the lack of personal customer service from your staff. But the inception of the meat freezer was the icing on the cake. I have entered your store twice since the meat freezer was introduced, and each time I am met with an uninformed, unfriendly staff member at the register. When I am asked if I am a member and I reply, “No,” the mood changes, and they are no longer not even friendly; they are downright cold. I always thought the idea was you didn’t have to be a member to shop at Chico Natural Foods? Why should I be a member of a store that sells meat? I can shop anywhere else in town and not have to pay a membership fee, get better service, and have a wider selection of foods and services to choose from.

So, last evening, having decided that your store was unfortunately the only one in which I could purchase vegan mozzarella (that was open at the time), I made the choice to purchase the cheese from your store. My boyfriend and I walked in, selected the cheese, and we went to the counter to pay. Were we asked if we were members? No. The young woman at the register scanned our cheese and proclaimed, “This cheese gives me the creeps! I can’t believe their only selling point is ‘It Melts!’,” referring to the package that does in fact advertise that this vegan mozzarella cheese melts. My boyfriend and I replied, “Well, most soy cheeses don’t melt, so this is actually a pretty good way to sell their product.” She replied, “Well, I could never eat it, it’s just too weird.” We walked out, completely flabbergasted.

I’m not sure what her intention was, but we were completely turned off, and vowed to never enter the store again. Ever since I became a Chico resident and started shopping at Chico Natural Foods, I have been disappointed over and over again by your unfriendly staff members. I used to think it was me, maybe it was something I was doing; but even when I composed myself with a chipper attitude, the staff members continued to ignore me and act as if they had better things to do with their time. I’ve even had staff members carry on a conversation with other staff members or co-op members while they were ringing me up.

The time has come for me to completely shut out your store from my shopping routine, which is unfortunate, because your hours of operation coincide with my available hours to shop. But there are always ways around that.

By the way, while I’m at it, it would be helpful if there were some way to contact you via your website, instead of having to write and mail a letter. There is no “contact us” link, and you have to dig around just to find your mailing address and phone number. Given that I've gone through all the trouble to write a letter to you and mail it should say something.

Thank you for your time.
walrus

eta: come to find out, S&S was open when we drove past it 15 minutes after going into CNF. S&S's hours are whack.

[Emiloid]

Way to speak your mind, walrus! :thumbsup:

[Miso Vegan]

Good letter. I hate bad customer service more than anything, except snide comments about vegan food.

[boogabaah]

wow walrus! i'm really sorry to hear about all this. i just moved here and the staff there has been nothing but nice to me. :umm: maybe they'll be even nicer after reading your letter.

is S&S a vegetarian store? i haven't even been there yet.

[quagga]

First - great letter walrus! I'm sorry that the cashier was so rude!

Second - welcome to Chico boogabaah! Another Chico vegan - yay! I just re-read your vegan story and saw nary a hint that you were in the Chico area.

S&S is connected to a butcher shop, so it is definitely not vegetarian. It smells like a butcher shop, too, but the staff are way nicer, faster, and more attentive than the staff at CNF. At S&S animal products are mixed in with veg products throughout the store instead of being relatively segregated as they are at CNF.

[Emiloid]

I've had mixed, but generally good experiences at CNF. Then again, I'm probably more oblivious than some people. S&S is a great store, aside from the meat! They might be a tad more expensive than CNF. It's hard to remember, but that's my impression.

FWIW, I did complain about a cashier once at CNF who I observed being very rude to someone without a membership... and I seriously never saw her again afterwards! Not even around town. She was annoying anyway.

[walrus]

S&S is connected to a butcher shop, so it is definitely not vegetarian. It smells like a butcher shop, too, but the staff are way nicer, faster, and more attentive than the staff at CNF. At S&S animal products are mixed in with veg products throughout the store instead of being relatively segregated as they are at CNF.
I never noticed that smell in S&S. I've even gone in sniffing for it, after grog mentioned it, and I still couldn't smell it. There was this store in SoCal, Stater Bros., that REEKED of blood. Long before I was even vegetarian, vegan, whatever, I knew what that smell was and I hated it. I flat out refused to go in there, eventually. I have a very sensitive nose, you can ask Johnny. When I walk in there I smell perfumes and pills/supplements. Weird.

[seitanicvegan]

Way to go, walrus!

[boogabaah]

supply and demand. i haven't seen anyone buying meat/animal products at CNF, maybe the demand is low enough to stop the supply! wishful thinking, maybe. :happy:

i can usually smell the meat dept, too. i was surprised to even see it in CNF.

isn't that what a co-op is all about? voicing yourself if you do or don't like something? "voting" with your dollar as to what they sell and don't sell? i'm curious as to when they made the switch. i've only been in town about a month now. (guess i could get unlazy and read this whole thread!)

[quagga]

People are buying the animal products.

The membership voted (http://www.veganrepresent.com/forums/showpost.php?p=158025&postcount=77)that the store carry animal products in October 2006.

The actual frozen meat case was stocked in March or April 2007? Maybe later.

[grog]

I never noticed that smell in S&S. I've even gone in sniffing for it, after grog mentioned it, and I still couldn't smell it. There was this store in SoCal, Stater Bros., that REEKED of blood.

It reeks. Do you go into the produce area, which is adjacent to the butcher area?

Count yourself lucky you don't notice it :sick:

[boogabaah]

People are buying the animal products.

The membership voted (http://www.veganrepresent.com/forums/showpost.php?p=158025&postcount=77)that the store carry animal products in October 2006.

The actual frozen meat case was stocked in March or April 2007? Maybe later.


thats just nuts! and doesn't make a lot of sense to me. :confused: my dollar will always go towards vegan products, the only thing i can do about it, i guess.

[quagga]

Just an update...

Alas, the co-op is now carrying flesh sandwiches in its deli area. And the meat items have exploded from the freezer to a refrigerated case alongside the cheese, tofu, tempeh, and meat analogues.

In other news, three board members resigned at the same time, including the BOD president. The new general manager resigned last week as well.

[walrus]

wow! are any of those folks jill paydon?

[Dandelion]

What the hell is happening over there in Chico man?!

[quagga]

wow! are any of those folks jill paydon?

Heather J., Rachel M. B., Judith P. all resigned -- some are moving out of the area, some are just too overloaded, and some probably have unresolved issues. It doesn't sound like a planned simultaneous exodus, but who knows?

Jill is not on the Board.

Remaining BOD members are:
Theo B.
Sarah J.
Cara H.
Gaylene K. - new
Benn D.

New/Acting? BOD President Sarah J. will be serving as interim GM.

[Emiloid]

Wow.... That's too bad that they're going all-out on the meat stuff. Weird about the board, too.
Also odd: I don't recognize any of the board members names! I've been gone a year and already everything is different.

[quagga]

Just an update here for Chicoans...apparently CNF (whoever that is -- the BOD? the interim General Manager??) has fired Scott as reported in the minutes of the last BOD meeting.

Scott worked at CNF forever, so it's odd not to see him around the store. I actually don't recall now whether he was was anti-meat (he's vegetarian, so he probably was), but I do remember him strongly advocating that the deli remain vegetarian. I guess his departure is why CNF now sells flesh sandwiches.

[grog]

Woah.

I suspect that's a big mistake, I presume he was the only one who knew "everything" anymore.

Where do you see these minutes? On the wall there?

[walrus]

jesus. way to go, CNF.