clothes!

[zatoichi]

i need clothes! where do you people buy your comfortable, vegan, sweatshop-free clothes? all my pants are from the gap! i need help... i also don't have a very large clothing budget. i can't afford sixty dollar hemp pajama pants. i don't even like hemp. i like cotton, even though cotton is supposed to be the crop of the devil (i don't know much about this if someone cares to inform me. i just know that it's BAD and countries are what like, indebted to other countries and are paying them back with cotton? something?) i'm also extremely selective about what i'll wear. it has to be perfect. soft, but not TOO soft. not like cotton ball soft where it feels as if you could pull the fabric apart like cotton candy. it's gotta be durable. but comfortable. and heavy-weight. short sleeves have to be short. like eighties short. the way they make shirts these days is all wrong. it's as if they make every size to accomidate horribly obese people...and i have to suffer for it! i'm also looking for pants with skinny thighs and wide legs. not quite bell-bottoms, but easily mistaken as such by conservative-type hippie-haters. i like cords. and whatever you call trousers...heavy cotton pants. sorta like casual slacks. but not really. i just detest denim. it's not even an option.

i know i should revise all that and make it more literate and less rant-like, but i'm not gonna.

to paraphrase: where can i find comfortable, cotton clothes that have been manufactured humanely? i'm about an hour outside of new york so anything in new york city will do or anything online. just, i don't like second-hand clothes. i always fear their previous owner was a big pork eater and didn't believe in napkins. even though one of my favorite pairs of cords is second-hand and from the seventies or eighties... but they are in need of repairs. i was thinking of having them replicated, but i don't know how i'd go about doing that short of having knowledge on how to sew electronically implanted into my head.

i need to learn the meaning of the word 'paraphrase'.

someone get me some clothes and make this all end! i don't want to write several more pharagraphs on the subject, but i will i have to!

[jenzie]

http://www.americanapparelstore.com/?gtse=goto&gtkw=american+apparel

:thumbsup:

It is cotton, but sweatshop free! (From the FAQ)

12. Where are American Apparel's products made?

A: It's not just made in the USA, it's made in downtown LA! All of American Apparel's products are cut and sewn in its downtown Los Angeles facility. We also knit our own fabric on site.

13. What is "sweatshop free™"?

A: We claim that our products are sweatshop free because we pay our workers a fair wage according to California wage and hour laws which are rarely respected. Unlike other companies who have gone off shore, or use subcontractors, we insist on knowing the faces of our workers.

[zatoichi]

far out!

you are my savior!

i mean that too. the ringer shirts are the first thing i looked at and they're great. and you have no idea how picky i am. most ringer shirts these days are ****. really.

[zatoichi]

only now i have another dilemma. small or medium? i never know until its too late...

and i'm still gonna need pants. or not.

[JasonSt]

Wow, rad site. Thanks for the link:D

[zatoichi]

i have a question and i'm sure one of you socially conscious people has a brilliant answer for me.

what would happen if everyone decided to stop buying sweatshop items? i mean, gradually, not instantaneously. would china's economy collapse or would it learn to evolve? what would happen? does boycotting sweatshop goods actually improve the situation?

[Emiloid]

I'd seriously recommend buying from second-hand and thrift stores. They often have a huge selection, are very cheap, and by buying used you are helping reduce the demand for new clothes--which in turn reduces the amount of resources used in creating and shipping the clothes. You also would not be supporting sweatshop labor. Reduce, reuse, recycle, man! There are plenty of clothes in the world already--we don't need more. Except maybe underwear and socks. ;)

Of course, if you really need to buy something new, sweatshop-free and ecologically-sound is the way to go.

You asked if it makes a difference, and I would say definitely. The Gap might not miss your couple of bucks, but you are part of a larger trend towards socially-responsible consumption. I doubt that the dairy, egg, and meat producers really miss us individually, but it's still important to boycott those industries, don't you think? Not only is is good to remove yourself as much as possible from supporting such indistries, but as a group we can make a difference in the profits these companies make (or don't make). Plus, you would be setting an excellent example--if your friends, family, acquaintences, etc. see you wearing cool used or socially-responsible clothing it might get them interested in doing the same thing. You rock!

[zatoichi]

well...

i was wondering whether people need these sweatshop jobs, really. i know they're terrible places to work, but if people didn't need these jobs, they wouldn't work there. so my question is, will the workers miss my business (not the corporations)...? buying sweatshop free usually means buying within the US or buying from other westerners. will china and third world countries suffer for this, or is the current situation somehow self-perpetuating? if so, could someone explain it to me?

[Lucy]

zatoichi, I see your point and I'm not an authority, but I'll respond as best I can. This is not an answer to your question, but I think that we tend to be instinctively "anti-sweatshop" because we have the impression that nonunion factories employing, among other, minors in Southeast Asia or Central America = sweatshops.

I think we could be a little more relativistic about this and try to understand things from their point of view. A couple of points that you could investigate would be: (1) wages in the context of that country's economy, not ours (a wage of 25 cents an hour--or whatever--sounds like slave wages to us, but is it nothing to them?); (2) if a worker is underage according to our standards, is he really being exploited and is it "child labor"? Or is that child doing as well as can be expected in his country, given that education is poor and earning wages to contribute to the family income is all that he can reasonably expect of life at this point?

You might think from reading this that I have a particular agenda, but I don't. I'm as confused as anyone by this issue, because it's much more complicated than I know, but I personally want to guard against a knee-jerk reaction either way. If working in what we in the West call a "sweatshop" is actually a good opportunity for someone in the country where it's located, I certainly don't want to see that factory closed down because of what may be our impossibly high American liberal standards. I don't want to see anyone exploited or treated like a slave, though. Yes, conditions should not exist that make it "good" for a child to need to work in a factory, but taking away the factory doesn't improve that child's life, either.

One thing I do know is that prisoners produce a lot of the cheap goods that bear the "made in China" label, so we need to be careful about what we buy from there. I definitely don't want to be supporting the undoubted exploitation of prison workers (and don't forget that, in China, many of those will likely be political prisoners).

[Rosemary]

I think the idea is that if companies can't sell stuff produced in sweatshops, they will be forced to treat their workers better. The idea is not to eliminate jobs but to get the working conditions improved.

I agree with Emiloid, second hand is best. Or make your own (though I don't know about how to know if the fabric you buy is ethically produced.)

You can get some cool vegan sweatshop-free Ts at http://www.nonleatherforks.com/

[gladcow]

you could look into fair trade clothing. My mom just got me a great bag from a fair trade shop called Ten Thousand Villages (http://www.tenthousandvillages.com/) I don't think they have clothing though. Only handicrafts. I'll do a google search and see what I can find.
here (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&q=fair+trade+clothing) is what I found

[Emiloid]

Hi... sorry, I didn't really answer your original question, about whether they need the jobs and what would happen if all demand were eliminated. I am not an economist, but I'd like to say that 1) the demand would never drop that suddenly (just like the world is not going to suddenly go vegan and elimiate all those animal prcessing jobs...), and 2) the economies of a lot of countries that we think of as poor and/or third world are often the way they are because they are trying to compete with and join the westernised world. That is, they have switched from subsistence farming and production of items historically specific to their region to the production of the useless crap demanded by western/developed nations.... and they're starting to think they want it, too. The US and other first-world countries (and global corporations) have forced (or at least strongly influenced) ideas about what it means to be "developed" on other parts of the world, and this is increasing the demand to transform raw resources into things/items we can consume. So... my point is, by discouraging sweatshop labor and encouraging environmentally sustainable business practices, not only will it possibly encourage the companies involved to improve conditions for their workers, it will hopefully also help slow/discourage countries from blindly trying to join western society in its self-destructive consumerist culture.

Not that I'm opinionated or anything.... :rolleyes:

[mountainvegan]

Originally posted by Emiloid
not only will it possibly encourage the companies involved to improve conditions for their workers, it will hopefully also help slow/discourage countries from blindly trying to join western society in its self-destructive consumerist culture.

Not that I'm opinionated or anything.... :rolleyes:

That's okay...your opinions are correct. :p

[grog]

Is there any notion that one is taking away options/items from the disadvantaged (aka poor folk) by shopping at thrift stores when one can afford not to?

I totally agree with the re-use, re-cycle points. I'm just wondering the above?

On the other hand....I don't know the "stocks" of stuff that thrift stores have, maybe they have tons of it so there are always options for everyone. I know some place locally where I've tried to donate old clothes before and they wouldn't even give me the time of day (clothes? we have too many clothes, go away.)

I do need some "new" clothes. I'll have to go take a look.

[Emiloid]

Originally posted by grog
Is there any notion that one is taking away options/items from the disadvantaged (aka poor folk) by shopping at thrift stores when one can afford not to?

I don't think there's any shortage of clothes, so you wouldn't be taking from those in need. The only thing I can imagine *might* happen is if it became really trendy and the prices went up... but then there would still be the die-hard thrift stores that would cater to the truly needy... and perhaps more charities that would give directly to the poor instead of providing cheaper alternatives.

On a related note, when you shop at thirft stores you are often also financially supporting a nonprofit that helps the poor/disadvantaged in other ways aside from providing cheap clothing and household items. So you're doing good all around even if someone poorer than you may have really liked a particular shirt you bought. :)

Originally posted by grog
I know some place locally where I've tried to donate old clothes before and they wouldn't even give me the time of day (clothes? we have too many clothes, go away.)


I've had this experience in Chico, especially at the end of the school year when the students go home for the summer. The thrift stores are overwhelmed with stuff and don't have the staff or space to deal with it all. You could wait and try again in a month or two, or try another place. Some of the larger nonprofits (Goodwill and Salvation Army, I believe) ship their exess clothing/items to other areas and other countries for use and/or recycling, but even they get overwhelmed at times.

[smrfpwr]

In response to the excess clothes thing, I happen to know of a local charity that gives clothes away (for free) to needy folks only. They get such a large quantity of clothes in that they sort through it and put out the stuff that is in decent shape and in season, and send the rest to another charity in Mexico. That way it has another chance to be adopted by even more needy people.

As for the whole sweatshop thing, they exist because the bottom line is that people want cheap clothes. If good working conditions were a higher priority than cheap clothes for people, then that is what we would get.

Of course if any country tried to put restrictions on imports that were made with sweatshop labor the WTO would quickly put their asses back in place. (Free trade? We're not free to NOT trade) Did anyone else listen to this (http://www.veganrepresent.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3705)?

by discouraging sweatshop labor and encouraging environmentally sustainable business practices, not only will it possibly encourage the companies involved to improve conditions for their workers,

Generally consumers cannot have much impact on things such as this. People will buy it if it's there. The real impact comes with laws and regulations that force the industry to change what is offered to consumers. Of course there are execptions to this and I still believe in boycotting the meat industry.

Also in a developing country, $0.25 a day is damn good if your only other option is nothing. That much money goes infinitely farther than it does here since the cost of living in those places is so low.

Ok, so thats my scattered 2 cents.

[zatoichi]

hm. people make good points, but i'm still not convinced either way. it's not as if i'm against outsourcing. i'm all for outsourcing.

and if i decide to stop buying sweatshop clothes, won't have to decide to stop buying, like, everything? what isn't made oversees with cheap labor? will i have to find special places to buy my produce and things? where does it end? why can't things be simple?

and i don't like thrift shop clothes. all those hipster stores buy all the decent stuff to resell anyway.